Surveying responses to a problem...

[Toby]

I had a very interesting conversation with one of my daughters new friends the other evening and now have a bit of probelm on my hands. Here is the sernerio in brief.
We are currently in March break week and my daughter invites a new friend for pizza and movie night.
Mid way through the evening after supper I call down to the kids that it was time for "Survivor" to show its latest episode. Asked the kids if it was ok to watch with them. No problem mom was the reply and we settle for watching the show.
The show finishes and i told the girls how wonderful it was to sit and be with them, and start to pack up my sewing and head upstairs. The new friend asks me a few questions and a conversation about report cards and school is inniated. As the conversation progresses very startling details are revilied by this young lady, and stunned, my daughter and I listened with deeply saddened hearts. The girl has recently come back from a week stay with her aunt who took her in after her mother physically abused her. Her father was in a major car crash a few years ago and the marriage dissolved in a bitter custiody battle. The girl has recently (the last couple of days) pierced her own upper ear and now has a stud, claiming she felt nothing while doing it.(her mom nows about it but did nothing about it) She spoke quietly about having problems eating and went through a time where she would cut herself.(shocked my daughter as she showed her old scars under those trendy wrist bands the girls wear these days) She is currently doing ok at school but has held off giving her mother her report card until after the March break as her marks have slipped over the last term. She loves soccer and plays in leagues 4 nights of the week, and in her words is the only time she feels alive. She is labeled gifted and has struggled with this labelling since early elementary school.She is a very good actress and comes across as bubbly and sweet but when given an opportunity to vent has a very deep dark area that overpowers her personality. When asked she admits to having seen a child physcologist and a school councellor but currently refuses to see anyone for fear of being placed away from her parents.
After about two hours of this conversation it was time for her to head home and with a heavy heart dropped her off at her door. She admitted to reaching crisis level and talked about some very self destructive behaviour she was thinking about. I told her that i would pay for councelling if money was an issue but her mother would need to be invovled. I told her that her mom needs to know what she is feeling and needs to be coucelled as well and that I would be happy to help the whole family get help. I coached this in as positive way as possible, ensuring that she can at least come and talk to be anytime she wanted.
This child is severly depressed and needs help, and my daughter was shocked and dismayed at her new friends problems. to say the least most of it went right over her head. I went home and hugged my kid and had a good long talk with her and she seems to be ok.
I am now facing the end of March break and the responcibility of the information given to me by this little girl. (14yrs). The mother is unapproachable, the father unapproachable, but do i approach the school and see if they can help her with counselling and help.??
what would you do if you where put in this situation?
Toby

[AnnW]

You said she was a good actress, is it possible she was acting with you?
Has she threatened to hurt herself? If yes, then you need to contact the school or perhaps a suicide hotline. If no, and she was using you as a sounding board, what exactly would you be telling someone?

[littlesista06]

I'm leaning towards the acting thing. Is this the first time she's been in your home, first time she's spent time with you? If so, and she is sharing such personal details, it doesn't make sense to me.

She may very well have issues at home, but this seems more like an attempt for attention. JMO

[mtrouse]

It may be an attempt for attention yes but a very serious one and if she has the "scars" to prove it then maybe this is not a fairytale. My advice, go in and talk to the school counselor about what the girl told you and explain the childs worries. maybe she can atleast talk to the girl on a weekly or twice aweek basis and find the truth and if it is for attention the the girl is getting that also.


by the way have a 4yr old redheaded girl for sale(temper, temper)lol

[Toby]

Just got home from visiting a good friend of mine and got some good advice on this issue. Thanks to those who responded, your insight is very valid and appreciated.
My friend i was visiting knows this girl and gave me more insight into her family and her personality. The girls mother is absolutely un approachable so the avenue to have a heart to heart is a closed one. The mother has a new boyfriend and spends lots of time organizing her new sex life, ignores the daughter and seems to have a soft drug problem.(isn't that comforting news!)
This girl indeed has a cutting issue and is now openly talking to anyone who will listen. My friend had a similar talk with the girl, see it as a call for help, had a chat with the girls mom, and was basically told to go **** herself.
We are both left knowing this girl is out on a limb, and no saftey net.
I asked my friend why she never told me or warned me of this girl and her problems, and her reply was that she felt helpless after the girls mother was so rude, and pressured to keep quiet as she does not want to make waves in the larger girl community. She also brought up a good point that any outside influence could cause this girl more problems at home, and the school can only do so much.
My problem is that my daughter now thinks she and her friends can be this girls council, that the adults are useless or can cause more damage, and that I am the bad guy if I tell....
I am up late thinking about this and I feel deep , deep down I will be making an appointment with the school and have the talk. I can't stand by and see this kid self destruct, with my kid and others watching....
Still hope for more insights from you guys and maybe a better night sleep!
Toby
P.S. What is with the parents of today? Is it me or are people crazier then ever! I am a pro active person, and hope to do the right thing but , i would really like to tear a strip off the mom...What is she thinking?
(Sorry alittle frustrated and tired)

[AnnW]

Poor little girl.
I would talk to her couselor/principal too.
I would also talk to my dd and ask her how she would handle the situation, role play if you will.

[aztec_judy]

Yes, the child is a GOOD Actress by this time. She has learned to be. OR get hurt by one or both parents, and/or the NEW boyfriend; because of You or any Adult "sticking their nose in" .. but she is crying out for HELP !! That is what I would go on. Because if she has cut herself, then its her way of dealing with a "bad" situation.
All adults at this time ARE the enemy.
BUT if this young girl ends up really hurting herself then how are you going to feel?? How will you and your daughter then re-act to it "knowing" what you know right now??
It is something that is hard to deal with whether you say anything or don't say anything. And there is/will be alot of "what if I had" ?? Thats a very hard scenrio to live with either way you decide to go with it.
The thing I might ask my daughter is : If this child should end up really hurting herself and we know these things what will YOU feel then??
But HOW far are YOU willing to go?? How involved are you willing to be?? How much are YOU willing to give to help this child??
In your heart of hearts how will you deal with it??
Also, it sounds as if this child is saying: I have about reached my own end, yet am very afraid of being taken from the only type of security I know!!
Will she speak up if you go to bat for her?? OR will she cave in an NOT say anything ??
This is not something that will clear up over a few days of dealing with it. It could take months, an it will appear to be a hard battle from the time you first say something.
For you will be going up against a "mother / father" and a child that is confused, hurt, lost, yet pleading for help. Its NOT a few days an it will go away or be dealt with. It can be months of dealing with it.
I suppose I am asking really are YOU strong enough in your convictions to deal with this for sometime??
Also will you be able to explain it to your daughter well enough for her to understand that YOUR NOT attempting to cause more pain for the child, which is what will happen at first, but to attempt to save her from as much as possible at this time from more pain or worst damage to her own body.
And can you do it before the child actually reaches her own end??
Someone needs to attempt to reach the child before the worst damage can be done or be beyond reaching.
Because normally a abused child will make some efforts, as this one seems to be doing, to reach out before becoming unreachable.
But there are the scars that are already on the inside that will take years to overcome as it is.
And yes, an abusive child makes a very GOOD actress OR Class Clown.
And yes its hard to know which way to go, and yes you will ask many times "should I have or shouldn't I have??"
And her piercing her ear, feeling NO pain. Why should she feel any? Her pain tolerance is possibly very high, since she is able to cut herself as she does. Ear piercing is minor.
JMO...

[Amy]

Poor little girl.
I would also talk to my dd and ask her how she would handle the situation, role play if you will.

I agree. If your dd is okay that you seek help on this friend's behalf, then definitely go for it. If she didn't agree, then I would make a really concerted effort to make her understand why you need to do this and still go to the school.

[littlesista06]

Ooohh my. Good luck with whichever way you decide to handle it. This child needs someone to be her advocate.

[BevJ]

I agree. If your dd is okay that you seek help on this friend's behalf, then definitely go for it. If she didn't agree, then I would make a really concerted effort to make her understand why you need to do this and still go to the school.
I wholeheartedly agree.

[Toby]

thanks for all the replys and I really appreciate the advice. I had a better nights sleep and woke up feeling more confident about an action plan in regards to this problem. I guess I was feeling isolated over the March break as my steady group of friends who I rely on are all really busy or out of town, so your imput has been very helpful.
I think the AZtec poster hit it on the head with her excellent post and for all the reasons and points she made, these are the ideas that have been keeping me up at night.
Just to let you know i am a very street smart person, and very very strong willed and not afraid of confrontation. I can stick it out for the long haul and if neccessary call the authorities if need be. The only problem i have is that this girl has only been to my house once. And from what i gather she can be very manipulative. The act could be just that, to get attention, but there are to many pieces of the puzzle missing for me to be able to be as pro active as I would like.
My game plan is to approach the school, report what was said to me and see what is available as help for this kid. If there is minimal help then I will take it further with the mom.
thanks again for all your help, i will keep you all posted as to the results once school is back in.
Toby

[aztec_judy]

Toby, she may or may not be seeking "Attention" for the sake of attention. I know an understand that part too. Being involved with TOUGHLOVE out in calif I learned better to deal with children that way.
But coming from an abusive home myself, and working very hard at being the Class Clown, AND attempting NOT to draw attention to myself, worked against me at times. BUT there was NO ONE that would either stick it out NOR go the distance. AND I ended up on the wrong side of the branch many times, BOTH physcially and mentally. YET, I was afraid of being taken from my "only" place of security!!
That is why I can post as I did. I know both sides of the "Coin" so to speak.
But anyone that "MET" mom just loved her, so that was the opposite somewhat of what your going to be up against.
Anyways .. hope it all helps ya ...

[Toby]

You are great Aztec /Judy and i hear ya! Your posts are great and i too have had a tough life. There is great hope for this girl as long as people can lend a hand.
Tonight as i think and review this thread i am wondering again as to the parenting or lack of parenting this kid has experienced. The news from the east coast of Canada is that a group of boys have been arrested for planning to shot and bomb thier highschool. Eating disorders are the norm with teachers monitoring kids at lunch hour for how much they have eaten. Drugs and alcohol are are the least of the fears for this generation of kids. I am dishearted and sad that the world is so ugly for my daughters age group to grow up in.....
How can we make it a better places...what are the solutions?
Toby

p.S. I now, I know its always worse at night...will sleep on it and maybe be more positive in the morning...

[aztec_judy]

I am grateful that I was able to help.
My prayers go with you and the choice your make.
But it will be a battle for sure for you. And yes, things are always darkest at night, and when your tired.
To me the darkest was NOT having anyone to really turn to much less ask for help from. So I learned to stand alone, and to be the class clown, I was NOT into any kind of pain. And not until much older was I really into any kind of confrontations either.
And there are way tooo many "what if's" !!
Good Luck.

[Ryleigh S.]

What a sad story... we will pray for a happy outcome. This little one is so lucky to have someone like you to look out for her.

[Toby]

Thought i would post an update on this situation. i spoke with the school and addressed the issue first with the school councillour and then was referred to the Social worker who takes care of this girls file. I gave all the relavent details and as there are strict confidentiality rules in place was given very little feedback as to what this child will or has recieved in regards to help with her problems.
The social worker how ever congratulated me as to persuing this and encouraged me and anyone else to always report if there is any sign of abuse or mental health issues present with any child. She went on to say that if we had more people trying to help we would be a much better world for it.
I feel somewhat relieved but still saddened at my inability to help this child. I guess I will keep the lines of communication open, and pray that this child will be safe... thanks for everyones support!
toby

[aztec_judy]

Toby, yes that is true there is the rules to follow. Hopefully now you might start/be able to work from your side with your daughter .. make sure that your daughter is open to working with it and helping as much as possible with talking to you and that thru your daughter ya'll mite be able to continue the help from ya'lls side that way ..
once the child feels confident / trust enough to stand, and KNOWS that your willing to really, really help and that its NOT a line only, then there is alot that can be accomplished with her.
and make sure that if ya'll do this ... and KEEP a journal of everything ... date all of it.
Will pray that she will turn towards you an talk more with you.. ok.

[Melody]

I feel somewhat relieved but still saddened at my inability to help this child. toby

(((Toby))) You did help her even if it doesn't feel like it right now. I'm sure that the social worker and school councilor are relieved that you came to them with this and that they have more information to help her. Kudos to you for going to them. Thanks for the update.

[Nikki]

I'm a newbie (hello to all) and I'm just flabberghasted by the similarity to this girl's life story compared to a movie I just watched on HBO the other night called "THIRTEEN"! Wow!

As a mother of a two yr old, I cannot fathom at this point what a challenge your decisions would have been since the friend confided in you. I think that you've made the best decision possible for the girl's (and your daughter's) well being, and commend you on setting a good example for your own daughter. Just by listening and acting responsibly on what you were told, it shows your daughter that you're not only available for discussions about future problems that she may face, but that you're also willing to stand by her while searching for solutions - a characteristic that will most likely be passed onto your grandchildren from your daughter (when that day comes - but lets hope it's quite a ways away!) LOL

Kudos to you, and I hope this works out for the best in the end!

[Toby]

Thanks guys, I appreciate your viewpoints. My house is grand central station, for alot of kids as i am the only stay at home mom around, so will probably be seeing alot more of this child and others. My plan is to be as supportive as possible as I truly care for the kids and have great hope for thier future(even though sometimes i get sad over some situations).
My door and heart has and will always be open, and as i have some insist from eperience of difficult times, can hopefully be a safety net for those in need.
The movie "Thirteen" is a fantastic film, and similar, but when you get face to face with some problems, it can really throw you for a loop. My daughter and I have had some really great heart to heart talks, and this has been the best part of the process. Kids are smart these days and i am relearning all the things all over again.
I don't know if many in the U.S. can recieve our CBC network, but there is a fantastic documentary airing tonight (CBC Channel 26/ The Passionate Eye/10pm Documentary Program: Secrets) that is very graphic and enlightening as to life as a preteen. This show is not for everyone, as it is very graphic, but gives you a really honest view as to life of thirteen year old kids.
If you can watch it and would love to see what you think....boy of boy i had nightmares after seeing it a few days ago!
Cheers
Toby

[aztec_judy]

Toby, Wished I could have seen it. I am going to see if maybe can find the movie "thirteen" here and watch it.
The best I can say for me is : you've seen "mommie, dearest" .... multiply it by 10 and do NOT allow the talk backs. Children are to be seen an NEVER heard. And if you remember the movie then ya know what I dealt with.
anyways .. prayers be with you ..