what would you do if your kids told you..

[Amy]

they were gay? Dh and I were watching MTV a couple of nights ago and they had a series on called True Life. It revolved around young adults in different life cycles of their homosexuality. One had yet to come out to his dad, one had come out, but was extremely private about it (with a VERY flamboyant boyfriend) and the last was an angry lesbian sick of the stares and rude comments.

Dh and I have always said that we would be totally accepting of our kids no matter what their sexual orientation. As long as they are addiction free and law abiding citizens with good hearts, then I would call myself a successful parent.

[BevJ]

Dh and I have always said that we would be totally accepting of our kids no matter what their sexual orientation. As long as they are addiction free and law abiding citizens with good hearts, then I would call myself a successful parent.
We say the same. I think you'd be hard pressed to find anybody say they wouldn't, even if they really wouldn't.

[RCT]

I would hope we would react with love and support too.

I remember Cher saying even though she had tons of gay friends, she was in such a state of shock and grief over what she thought her daughters life would be, the she had a really hard time with her being gay for a long time....

[AnnW]

I would be so very sad..sad for the loss of my visions for their life, sad for the obstacles they would inevitably have to overcome. I would be torn spiritually. I do believe it is a sin, but I also believe that I have no role in the final judgement. And I would keep on loving my child.

[BevJ]

I would be so very sad..sad for the loss of my visions for their life, sad for the obstacles they would inevitably have to overcome. I would be torn spiritually. I do believe it is a sin, but I also believe that I have no role in the final judgement. And I would keep on loving my child.
Aside from my post saying I would be accepting of the lifestyle if my ds so chose, you summed up what I feel as well.

[BevJ]

I would be so very sad..sad for the loss of my visions for their life, sad for the obstacles they would inevitably have to overcome. I would be torn spiritually. I do believe it is a sin, but I also believe that I have no role in the final judgement. And I would keep on loving my child.
I have a question, come to think of it.

Ann, have your children been told that being gay is wrong (outside what they learn from the Church)? My BIL and his dw tell their son that being gay is wrong. It makes me uncomfortable that they tell him that. I feel that if it ends up that *C* is gay, he'd feel like he couldn't come out to his parents and I just couldn't imagine what that would feel like for him, kwim? Even the way she views gay people, to me seems homophobic. On my ds's birthday my SIL and her ds were over for cake and since she is a hairdresser, she was talking about a restaurant they eat at in Toronto when they go down for hair shows. Her ds said he wanted to go with her the next time she went to a show (why, I don't know, lol). She said "no, all the "fruity guys" would like you too much? Huh?

[Diane]

I would be so very sad..sad for the loss of my visions for their life, sad for the obstacles they would inevitably have to overcome. I would be torn spiritually. I do believe it is a sin, but I also believe that I have no role in the final judgement. And I would keep on loving my child.

Perfectly said... :)

[Mickey]

We're both like Amy and her dh. Yeah, I'm sure we'd privately mourn our dreams for our child, but would love him/her just the same. And I'm VERY careful to word anything I say about homosexuality in a neutral light. I was raised Catholic, so what I'm supposed to believe and what I believe are two different things.

[Amy]

Its funny because I DON'T have dreams or expectations for my kids' future. Like I said-as long as they are law abiding, healthy and good people, then I am thrilled. I don't have a destiny or dream for them because it is their's to make. This might be because I loath that other people get out of joint when THEIR expectations of me don't come to fruition. The only thing I can do is support whatever it is they chose.

[BevJ]

Its funny because I DON'T have dreams or expectations for my kids' future.
The only "dream" I have for ds is to be a father...to more than 1 child, lol. Since I know that I couldn't handle being a mom to more than 1, and I so envy those who are, I would like to experience the "more" by being a grandma. If it doesn't happen, it doesn't happen, life will go on and my love for ds will not change by it.

[Mickey]

Its funny because I DON'T have dreams or expectations for my kids' future. Like I said-as long as they are law abiding, healthy and good people, then I am thrilled. I don't have a destiny or dream for them because it is their's to make. This might be because I loath that other people get out of joint when THEIR expectations of me don't come to fruition. The only thing I can do is support whatever it is they chose.

I know what you mean...I'm thinking more of letting go of imagining them in an adult life experiencing only the typical daily conflicts most people encounter--broken down cars, a boss who isn't so nice, their child having a hard time at school, etc.--and not the other complications, like being discriminated against, mistreated, made fun of, judged, ridiculed, etc. I knew a gay guy at college who said, "No one in their right mind would "choose" this life." That's what I meant by mourning the loss of OUR dreams for our child. I don't have specific dreams of my children going into specific careers or anything, but I'm hopeful that they will be happy. I know we all struggle with something or another, but this would definitely add to the list of possible struggles.

[AnnW]

Its funny because I DON'T have dreams or expectations for my kids' future. Like I said-as long as they are law abiding, healthy and good people, then I am thrilled. I don't have a destiny or dream for them because it is their's to make. This might be because I loath that other people get out of joint when THEIR expectations of me don't come to fruition. The only thing I can do is support whatever it is they chose.

i think about them becoming a parent, me becoming a grandmother, planning their wedding. yes, these all are possible if they were gay, but not again, without alot of obstacles.

[AnnW]

I have a question, come to think of it.

Ann, have your children been told that being gay is wrong (outside what they learn from the Church)? My BIL and his dw tell their son that being gay is wrong. It makes me uncomfortable that they tell him that. I feel that if it ends up that *C* is gay, he'd feel like he couldn't come out to his parents and I just couldn't imagine what that would feel like for him, kwim? Even the way she views gay people, to me seems homophobic. On my ds's birthday my SIL and her ds were over for cake and since she is a hairdresser, she was talking about a restaurant they eat at in Toronto when they go down for hair shows. Her ds said he wanted to go with her the next time she went to a show (why, I don't know, lol). She said "no, all the "fruity guys" would like you too much? Huh?


I am very honest with my kids about my personal struggles with the issue. I have also had the same conversation with the gays/bisexuals at work. It's personally a very tough issue (and one reason why i never get into debates about homosexuality). I know first hand how a family's reaction to homosexuality can change a family. I tell my children exactly this 'this is a very hard issue for me because I do believe that it is a sin, but I also know that God doesn't want me to sit in judgement. All we can do is treat them lovingly and with respect like Jesus taught us to do"

[aztec_judy]

I fully agree with what Anne says ...
Only God can really truely judge anyone of us .. and since HE IS the ultimate Judge .. then I feel its not up to me.

I have duaghter that I had only recently found out she was Bi, that didn't stop my love for her. And when she told us, I told her : I believe it to be a sin, and NOT holy in the eyes of God, but ONLY GOD can stand in Judgement of this, NOT ME... But YOUR STILL MY DAUGHTER, So I will accept it. but I shall NOT like it.
I can not make any choices for my kids, the same as they NEVER chose me as thier mom ..
So I will NOT sit in judgement of this either. For ONLY GOD knows if they will choose to remain that way or change.
It hurt, but it was her choice.
Which today has changed .. she is not Bi anymore. And I will selfishly admit I am grateful for that... But I NEVER treated her any different during that time when she told me.
I know not how long she went thru it; but I do know it was for more than 4 yrs or 5.
I Prayed that God would help me to just love her as I had always loved her.

[BevJ]

I am very honest with my kids about my personal struggles with the issue. I have also had the same conversation with the gays/bisexuals at work. It's personally a very tough issue (and one reason why i never get into debates about homosexuality). I know first hand how a family's reaction to homosexuality can change a family. I tell my children exactly this 'this is a very hard issue for me because I do believe that it is a sin, but I also know that God doesn't want me to sit in judgement. All we can do is treat them lovingly and with respect like Jesus taught us to do"
Amen (too short)

[Amy]

I have duaghter that I had only recently found out she was Bi, that didn't stop my love for her. And when she told us, I told her : I believe it to be a sin, and NOT holy in the eyes of God, but ONLY GOD can stand in Judgement of this, NOT ME... But YOUR STILL MY DAUGHTER, So I will accept it. but I shall NOT like it.
Which today has changed .. she is not Bi anymore. And I will selfishly admit I am grateful for that... .

IMHO, that sounds like sexual experimentation rather than someone who has no choice in who they are.

[aztec_judy]

TRUE .. but when she is telling ya about her preference and says this is me and I will not change it; I hate men and will not go back to them again. But if only T was a man then NO ONE Would say anything would they? ....
I had NO idea how long she had been doing this and didnt know if she meant it. But I lived with her doing this for about 4 -5 ?? yrs before she chose to go back to men. And at one point they had begun to discuss marriage ... so yes very true it could have been just testing the waters .. but not if marriage is about to be involved .......

[Mickey]

TRUE .. but when she is telling ya about her preference and says this is me and I will not change it; I hate men and will not go back to them again. But if only T was a man then NO ONE Would say anything would they? ....
I had NO idea how long she had been doing this and didnt know if she meant it. But I lived with her doing this for about 4 -5 ?? yrs before she chose to go back to men. And at one point they had begun to discuss marriage ... so yes very true it could have been just testing the waters .. but not if marriage is about to be involved .......
I'm wondering if she has been sexually abused or emotionally devastated by a man at some point in her life. I have a lesbian friend (we grew up together) and I told her what my gay male friend said--how no one in their right mind would choose this--and she said, "I did." She went on to explain that she hated how her brothers were growing up (they would talk degradingly about women and she'd overhear them talking about what they did to girls at parties, etc.) and she saw how her father treated her mother and how her grandfather molested her as a child and she said that all the men she knew growing up were pigs and she chose to be emotionally involved with a woman and that emotional involvement lead to intimacy. She said she isn't disgusted at the thought of being with a man sexually, she just chooses not to be.

I've heard that because of the X and Y chromosome thing, that men have no choice in the matter, but women do, but I don't know how true that is. The gay men I've known all say that it is NOT a choice. But one has told me that he has spoken to friends about their "degree" of homosexuality--some of his gay friends have been with women, but they just don't enjoy it as much. But my friend said that it would be biologically impossible for him to be with a woman because he finds nothing at all sexually stimulating about a woman.

Anyway, just wondering if your daughter has had any traumatic experiences involving men since she obviously views her sexuality as a choice.

[littlesista06]

I've heard that because of the X and Y chromosome thing, that men have no choice in the matter, but women do, but I don't know how true that is. The gay men I've known all say that it is NOT a choice. But one has told me that he has spoken to friends about their "degree" of homosexuality--some of his gay friends have been with women, but they just don't enjoy it as much. But my friend said that it would be biologically impossible for him to be with a woman because he finds nothing at all sexually stimulating about a woman.



I find that interesting b/c I've had a similar talk with my gay guy friend from college. He said "I'd never choose to be this way". And then there's my sister who is gay but has been married and has two kids.... makes you wonder. Kinda blows my argument of whether or not it's a choice with my dh. LOL
As far as dh's brother goes, no one have delved into the details of his homosexuality. I kinda pegged him as gay when I met him nearly 20 yrs. ago.... I think he's been gay all his life but just tried to hide it esp. from his parents for fear of what they'd do or say.

[Diane]

I had a gay cousin who's dad treated him very badly. (I think he was sexually abused by his dad) He literally craved the love and attention of his dad... but he never got it. The minute a male figure gave him any kind of positive attention, he was hooked. :) The guy he chose to be with was an older gentleman, maybe a little younger than his dad. I'm thinking that this was his way of getting the love/attention he so needed/wanted from his dad and never got. He eventually got aids and passed away. I never looked down on him, but I always felt sorry for the life he had lived. He was a great guy... he probably could have gotten any woman he wanted, but obviously that's not what he wanted. I know he struggled a lot with who/what he was, he took a lot of verbal abuse from a lot of people, especially his dad. In the end I'm happy to say that when he was sick and really needed someone... his partner wasn't the one there with/for him, but his mom AND dad were. It was quite a touching ending, and it made us all think about a lot of things. When I think back it was pretty sad...

[Mickey]

I had a gay cousin who's dad treated him very badly. (I think he was sexually abused by his dad) He literally craved the love and attention of his dad... but he never got it. The minute a male figure gave him any kind of positive attention, he was hooked. :) The guy he chose to be with was an older gentleman, maybe a little younger than his dad. I'm thinking that this was his way of getting the love/attention he so needed/wanted from his dad and never got. He eventually got aids and passed away. I never looked down on him, but I always felt sorry for the life he had lived. He was a great guy... he probably could have gotten any woman he wanted, but obviously that's not what he wanted. I know he struggled a lot with who/what he was, he took a lot of verbal abuse from a lot of people, especially his dad. In the end I'm happy to say that when he was sick and really needed someone... his partner wasn't the one there with/for him, but his mom AND dad were. It was quite a touching ending, and it made us all think about a lot of things. When I think back it was pretty sad...

How sad. So the dad who sexually abused him and rejected him was there for him in the end? Or did you mean that the guy who died's dad was abused by HIS dad and that's why he was mean to his own son?

While I do think that it's a biological thing in many cases, I also believe that experiences can affect sexuality (like with my friend and her pig brothers, father, and grandfather). I also think that sexualizing a child can cause some major damage in so many ways and also affect sexuality.

[MaryL]

they were gay? Dh and I were watching MTV a couple of nights ago and they had a series on called True Life. It revolved around young adults in different life cycles of their homosexuality. One had yet to come out to his dad, one had come out, but was extremely private about it (with a VERY flamboyant boyfriend) and the last was an angry lesbian sick of the stares and rude comments.

Dh and I have always said that we would be totally accepting of our kids no matter what their sexual orientation. As long as they are addiction free and law abiding citizens with good hearts, then I would call myself a successful parent.

Not a lot to add...I feel pretty much like you do, Amy. And, I watched that same show!!! I was on the treadmill...and happened to turn that show on. How funny that you posted about this! I kind of like those "True Life" show episodes.

[Cathy]

I would be sad and worried for them. I think loving someone can be so difficult. And when you add in the societal bias, and the discrimination, and the judgement of others (family members, coworkers, neighbors) it just makes it harder. I will accept my dds whatever they decide for their lives and love them for who they are, but I agree that it makes life harder. (Incidentally, I'd feel the same way if they entered an inter-racial relationship. It's just harder... a little like being a single parent.)

I don't feel like I phrased that well..............

We've talked often about homosexuality over the years. They have gay friends and so do I. I can't and won't tolerate jokes, slurs, or intolerance about gays or their lifestyles. The Catholic church is quite brutal on the subject sometimes IMHO....but many Catholic priests/pastors aren't quite so unforgiving.

Is it just me? or is the whole topic a bit easier for women to accept than for men? I think young men (15-30) are the LEAST tolerant.

[SpeechMom]

sexualizing a child

I don't think I've ever heard that term. What does that mean?

[aztec_judy]

Mickey ... it is something that I normally wouldn't discuss at all. I suppose had the subject not come up I wouldn't have said anything.
But My X and I divorced while she was quiet young, and because of circumstances I had ended up not with my girls. Her father was abusive as far as punishment (but NOT sexually) by beatings NOT spankings and verbal, his new wife was even worst ( but I was not to find this out for many years). He is a control freak, and its most definitely his way and he could be verbally abusive. When he corrected the girls he could be very hard on them. For some reason espeically on this one daughter, they seemed to have the idea that she was my favorite and made sure that they reminded the girls of that all the time. I for one never have had a favorite among them, how do you end up with a fav?? For they are each their own person, and the girls are as different as night and day, that is for sure .. and I love them all as they are.
She ended up in abusive relationships for a long time. This last one I was very much afraid she would end up dead. For he was not just verbal with her but he was also physcially abusive also. She was with him for better than 9 yrs before she finally has left him. They are now divorced, and she has met a ?wonderful? man. And I say that because I know how appearances can BE deceiveing; but so far he has been great to her.
I am grateful that the last fight she had with her X was enough to finally convince her that that was enough. For the last time he landed her in the hospital.
But what frighten me was that his training in the service is something else and he could have very easily had landed her in the ground instead of the hospital, with only a broken nose instead. So she was lucky indeed and I know that God was watching over her for sure.
It took almost 15 yrs to convince my girls that they were neither stupid, ugly or fat. They are both very intelligent young women. And they are very beautiful ladies (even though they still dont' really believe that) and they are for sureeee NOT fat. Unless by todays standards a size 2 and a size 6 is now thought of as fat.
But with most people it most definitely in my eyes, what their upbringing is, can surely determine the direction that they end up in going.
Most parents don't stop to think the damage they cause the children when they verbally say things that hurt. For children put alot of trust in what a parent says over the years, and by putting them down constantly OR comparing them to the other can cause damage that may OR maybe not ever correct itself.
I am sorry for making this such a long post. But I also thank you all for allowing me to be able to say it. For as I said before its NOT something I really talk about. It has been only in the last few years that I have so opened up about things.
And I am grateful that the ladies here have allowed me to open up more.
thanks ...

[Mickey]

I don't think I've ever heard that term. What does that mean?
Sexual molestation/sexual abuse.

[Cathy]

Mickey, I waited to see how you'd define it. I agree with you, but I think it goes farther than that. I'd include referring to a (girl) child as 'sexy', or dressing them in such a way that they look like women. I think it's exposing children to sexual movies or pictures so that they become desensitized to the treatment of people as a means to a sexual end. I also think it's inappropriate conversation in front of children, especially when it includes the child in the discussion. I believe it's a form of child abuse.........but I don't think a lot of people realize that it is damaging.

[Diane]

How sad. So the dad who sexually abused him and rejected him was there for him in the end? Or did you mean that the guy who died's dad was abused by HIS dad and that's why he was mean to his own son?

While I do think that it's a biological thing in many cases, I also believe that experiences can affect sexuality (like with my friend and her pig brothers, father, and grandfather). I also think that sexualizing a child can cause some major damage in so many ways and also affect sexuality.

My cousin's dad (my uncle) was the one who abused him. There were other awful things he (my uncle) had done to family members, which is my reason for thinking he had also abused his son. He was there for his son in the end... and they grew close, they did a lot of talking, and were okay with each other by the time Rick died. I was glad that they had that time together to mend their relationship, and they were okay with each other by the time he passed.

[Mickey]

Mickey ... it is something that I normally wouldn't discuss at all. I suppose had the subject not come up I wouldn't have said anything.
But My X and I divorced while she was quiet young, and because of circumstances I had ended up not with my girls. Her father was abusive as far as punishment (but NOT sexually) by beatings NOT spankings and verbal, his new wife was even worst ( but I was not to find this out for many years). He is a control freak, and its most definitely his way and he could be verbally abusive. When he corrected the girls he could be very hard on them. For some reason espeically on this one daughter, they seemed to have the idea that she was my favorite and made sure that they reminded the girls of that all the time. I for one never have had a favorite among them, how do you end up with a fav?? For they are each their own person, and the girls are as different as night and day, that is for sure .. and I love them all as they are.
She ended up in abusive relationships for a long time. This last one I was very much afraid she would end up dead. For he was not just verbal with her but he was also physcially abusive also. She was with him for better than 9 yrs before she finally has left him. They are now divorced, and she has met a ?wonderful? man. And I say that because I know how appearances can BE deceiveing; but so far he has been great to her.
I am grateful that the last fight she had with her X was enough to finally convince her that that was enough. For the last time he landed her in the hospital.
But what frighten me was that his training in the service is something else and he could have very easily had landed her in the ground instead of the hospital, with only a broken nose instead. So she was lucky indeed and I know that God was watching over her for sure.
It took almost 15 yrs to convince my girls that they were neither stupid, ugly or fat. They are both very intelligent young women. And they are very beautiful ladies (even though they still dont' really believe that) and they are for sureeee NOT fat. Unless by todays standards a size 2 and a size 6 is now thought of as fat.
But with most people it most definitely in my eyes, what their upbringing is, can surely determine the direction that they end up in going.
Most parents don't stop to think the damage they cause the children when they verbally say things that hurt. For children put alot of trust in what a parent says over the years, and by putting them down constantly OR comparing them to the other can cause damage that may OR maybe not ever correct itself.
I am sorry for making this such a long post. But I also thank you all for allowing me to be able to say it. For as I said before its NOT something I really talk about. It has been only in the last few years that I have so opened up about things.
And I am grateful that the ladies here have allowed me to open up more.
thanks ...
I'm sure that wasn't easy to share, Judy. I'm glad you felt comfortable enough to do so.

Maybe abuse in general can affect people in that way (and not just sexual abuse).

I do hope that your dd's new boyfriend IS wonderful and always treats her in the loving, caring way she deserves to be treated.

[Mickey]

Mickey, I waited to see how you'd define it. I agree with you, but I think it goes farther than that. I'd include referring to a (girl) child as 'sexy', or dressing them in such a way that they look like women. I think it's exposing children to sexual movies or pictures so that they become desensitized to the treatment of people as a means to a sexual end. I also think it's inappropriate conversation in front of children, especially when it includes the child in the discussion. I believe it's a form of child abuse.........but I don't think a lot of people realize that it is damaging.
Absolutely! I totally agree with all the things you mentioned. Thanks for adding that, Cathy!

[Diane]

Most parents don't stop to think the damage they cause the children when they verbally say things that hurt. For children put alot of trust in what a parent says over the years, and by putting them down constantly OR comparing them to the other can cause damage that may OR maybe not ever correct itself.

I can relate to this part of your post. My dad was verbally abusive, and I know just how words can hurt and stick to you for the rest of your life. After being told over and over again that you're ugly, not worth crap, no good... stupid, to shut up every time you opened your mouth, to say nothing about the constant ridiculing. I'm 53 years old and I'm still bothered by some of the things he said to me when I was a little girl. You don't forget... you always remember. :) I just tried harder to be a better parent to my kids, and I made sure I never repeated the words my dad said to me. It's easy for someone who has never gone through something like this to say to just get over it... it sounds like an easy enough thing to do, but it sure isn't. :) I always remind myself though that I could have had it a heck of a lot worse... (I could have had my cousin's dad.... ) and thank God I turned out as good as I did. LOL

[aztec_judy]

Diane, I fully know where your coming from too, only mine was a very abusive mom.. she ran the house period, and you definitely didn't say anything unless she was speaking directly at YOU!!! And I learned very young to NEVER get in trouble a 2nd time for anything. With her you landed in China very easily, and both my x's just took up where she left off. Other, than the first one we went to fist city, but not my 2nd one, the girls father. He just always reminded me I was NO beauty queen (and I'll never forget the first time I ever piped up with : I never said I was but then your no prince either!!. the look on his face was priceless) .. but of course that didnt' mean much at the time. And I too, being 53 am still learning to get over it.
I know that Bill has been wonderful with the girls, and with me. He never understood til the girls came to live with us finally.
Then he began to understand alot. Especially when he would want to ask them something OR just say something to him and they would come out standing, as he said, parade rest. I called it standing at attention. But he was in the service and knew the different stances.
Both my MOM and my X would have been like a triple drill sargent as to the way they were.
If you've been to my other site you have seen the twins .. and you see they are NOT ugly nor fat ... And as far as smart .. well lets just say they both ended up in Military Intelligence when they went in the service. And they are both also drill sargents; but that is as close to their service time being the same. One is in Finance, the other was in ?? Radar Intrepetation ?? not sure exactly, but I do know she decipered things with the Radar, and computer items. They both had some college and while in college maintained a 4.0 average, and ohhhhhh they hated getting anything below a 95 period ... dangggg you would have thought they made like a 75 the way they would react .. lolol
I know at church people were surprised the first time they came in, in uniform because they didn't know at first they were even in the service ... lolol Everyone thought it was just the hubbys in the service .. lolol
anywayssss ....

[aztec_judy]

Mickey ... so far he has been wonderful to her. He comes across as a very loving caring person. They have only been together now for about 6 mths. And he calls her about 50 times a day and text messages her almost as much .. lololol it really is cute; and he ALSO includes her on everything. And most of all he always shows her that her opinion and thoughts reallyyyy matter to him. He dont' put her down on things either. So I pray that this time it works out better for her. He is the only one that has been totally the opposite of what she has been used to. For which I am very grateful.

And yes those things are hard to discuss. very hard indeed. for me any way it has always been hard.
And I am lucky that I can now discuss it more so than I had ever done before; but that is where Bill has been a great help to me with it. I am very grateful for him, very grateful. He is super and I love him very much for it all.
Thanks again for allowing me to speak of it.

[littlesista06]

I can relate to this part of your post. My dad was verbally abusive, and I know just how words can hurt and stick to you for the rest of your life. After being told over and over again that you're ugly, not worth crap, no good... stupid, to shut up every time you opened your mouth, to say nothing about the constant ridiculing. I'm 53 years old and I'm still bothered by some of the things he said to me when I was a little girl. You don't forget... you always remember. :) I just tried harder to be a better parent to my kids, and I made sure I never repeated the words my dad said to me. It's easy for someone who has never gone through something like this to say to just get over it... it sounds like an easy enough thing to do, but it sure isn't. :) I always remind myself though that I could have had it a heck of a lot worse... (I could have had my cousin's dad.... ) and thank God I turned out as good as I did. LOL

Oh my gosh. My oldest brother did that to me my whole life!! Told me I was fat, a porker, etc. etc. and I SO WASN'T. It's no wonder I haven't had any self esteem.
Wow, the board is gettin' heavy today, huh?! ;)

[Mickey]

For those of you who view it as a sin, would you encourage your child to fight their predisposition/feelings/desire/whatever you want to call it? Would you tell them it was their cross to bear and encourage them to seek religious counseling in an attempt to "overcome" it, or would you encourage them to see a mainstream counselor and work through their feelings about it? And if they conclude that they want to live their life as a homosexual, would you be supportive? Could you have their mate over for Christmas dinner and to other family functions? What if they wanted to adopt a child? Or have a biological child using their sperm/egg using a serrogate mother or sperm donor?

[AnnW]

For those of you who view it as a sin, would you encourage your child to fight their predisposition/feelings/desire/whatever you want to call it? Would you tell them it was their cross to bear and encourage them to seek religious counseling in an attempt to "overcome" it, or would you encourage them to see a mainstream counselor and work through their feelings about it? And if they conclude that they want to live their life as a homosexual, would you be supportive? Could you have their mate over for Christmas dinner and to other family functions? What if they wanted to adopt a child? Or have a biological child using their sperm/egg using a serrogate mother or sperm donor?


I think I said that while thinking it is a sin, I would be supportive.
I don't think I would tell anyone that anything in life 'is their cross to bear'.

[AnnW]

. I also think it's inappropriate conversation in front of children, especially when it includes the child in the discussion. I believe it's a form of child abuse.........but I don't think a lot of people realize that it is damaging.

talking about homosexuality?

[Diane]

Oh my gosh. My oldest brother did that to me my whole life!! Told me I was fat, a porker, etc. etc. and I SO WASN'T. It's no wonder I haven't had any self esteem.
Wow, the board is gettin' heavy today, huh?! ;)

It's funny because my dad was somewhat physically abusive too in the way that when he spanked... he spanked in anger and when he started, he didn't stop until he wasn't angry any more. By the time he was done we had welts on our backs/butt's. I remember getting clobbered over the head every once in a while, and while all that hurt... the verbal abuse is what I remember and I think hurt me the most.

[aztec_judy]

Diane, I hear ya there ... Only it was my mom with me. And man could she find things to hit you with too. And I mean whatever was handy at the time, a shoe, hairbrush, belt, cord .. you name it she used it. But yes, the words are ones that can never be taken back or unsaid. The beatings they go away.. only the memory of the pain from them remains. But words never go away.. and on top of that its YOUR parent(s) that are saying it, and when your little then it must be true. rite?? ... And its sad that that seems to stay with you forever.

Mickey, to my daughter I told her that it was between her N God .. I didn't approve and would possibly never approve, but it was her choice and her life, as her mom I would always love her and be there for her. Her Friend T was a very nice young lady, very polite, and I think she was glad to have had someone to accept her as she was; not be judgemenatal about it. She eventually ended up married to a man, and has since had a child, herself. They have remained friends.
But I never thought it was up to me to preach at them, they knew how I felt and where I stood with it; and that it was between them and God.
But while in my house they acted as just to lady-friends that had stopped over to visit. And I was grateful for that.

[Diane]

I could easily accept having them around me, but I wouldn't want it flaunted in front of me. I'm not too sure how well I'd handle that. LOL

[Mickey]

Judy and Diane, I agree that it shouldn't be flaunted, but not because they're gay. I think sometimes gay people go further with public displays of affection in an attempt to say, "This it how it is! Accept it!" but I think that makes it more difficult for everyone (themselves included). I wouldn't want my child to hang and kiss on their mate in front of me no matter what the gender.

[JADET]

Being a Christian woman, I don't necessarily think homosexuality is right, but i don't necessarily think it's wrong either. I have many gay/lesbian friends and I do not disregard them as being my friends b/c of their sexuality. That is their preference and why should I judge them for that. I feel it would be the same way with my children, I shouldn't judge them on who they pursue. If they are a good person and an righteous person in the eyes of God then there is no need to judge. But I can't really say how I would feel b/c I'm not in the situation, perhaps my thoughts and feelings would be different if I actually had a child come and tell me. but you don't really know how you will react until you put in that situation.

[Cathy]

talking about homosexuality?

No!! Not what I said at all.
I was answering Donna about the term 'sexualizing children'. I think discussion about intimate relations, parents' dates, who's sleeping around, who 'scored', etc. is bad for children.
Discussion of sex, including homosexuality, at an age appropriate level is hugely important. ...but not where the attitude is one of exploitation or objectifying people.
That's MY opinion.

[Linda/NE]

For those of you who view it as a sin, would you encourage your child to fight their predisposition/feelings/desire/whatever you want to call it? Would you tell them it was their cross to bear and encourage them to seek religious counseling in an attempt to "overcome" it, or would you encourage them to see a mainstream counselor and work through their feelings about it? And if they conclude that they want to live their life as a homosexual, would you be supportive? Could you have their mate over for Christmas dinner and to other family functions? What if they wanted to adopt a child? Or have a biological child using their sperm/egg using a serrogate mother or sperm donor?

Looks like I'm coming in, in the minority here. Bev asked Ann (I think) if she told her kids that homosexuality was wrong. I think Mickey mentioned that she's careful to speak neutrally about homosexuality. I DO tell my kids that a homosexual lifestyle is wrong--because it is. My kids were taught from as long as they could understand that people got married that boys marry girls and girls marry boys. As they got older and started asking questions we explained that God intended it that way.

I don't completely buy into the idea that gays and lesbians have no choice. Maybe they don't have a choice to feel that way, they do have a choice to act on it and involve themselves in that kind of relationship. To answer Mickey's question, yes I would encourage them to seek counseling to overcome/or learn to live with it and still keep within the commandments of God. Being gay, in itself isn't wrong, participating in homosexual activity is.

That being said, I have unconditional love for my children and I would always love them. I wouldn't hesitate to tell them that I don't approve of that lifestyle. While I would try very hard to accept a partner in my home, I would not allow any affectionate contact between them in my home. As far as my parents are concerned I KNOW the partner would not be welcome in their home. I'm not entirely sure my child would be.

As for the Catholic church, there are priests and other leaders that aren't very forgiving, but the Church welcomes everyone. It does not condone homosexual activity any more than it does pre marital hetro sexual activity. A homosexual person is not a sinner just because of their sexual preference. If they act on it or have improper thoughts, that's where the sinning comes in. As unfair as it seems, I believe that if a person truly believes they are homosexual and they had no choice in the matter, it is a cross they must bear. It is God's plan for them. Many people are born with or find themselves inflicted with ailments or handicaps that they did not choose to have. They either learn to live with it or let it defeat them.

If I was in this situation maybe my whole outlook would change. I can't answer for sure, because I don't know. I know what I believe and to be a good parent I have to pass that belief on to my children.

So often I hear people ask what's happening to society? Where are the morals and values? There's such a surge of people putting aside what they believe in order to not offend anyone when who they should be worried about offending is God.
A few of you commented about God being the final judge and it not being your place to judge. You would not be judging by telling your child that a homosexual lifestyle is wrong. Telling them him/her that he/she would go to hell or is a bad person for being homosexual IS being judgemental. Love the sinner, not the sin. ( Or hate the sin not the sinner).

Now, I'm sure my comments have heated some of your blood to close to boiling. This is MY opinion, MY feelings, My belief on the matter. As I'm typing this I questioned whether I'm a prude or something that I can't be as accepting of all this as some of you are. Someday if one of my kids comes to me with this, I'll probably eat these words. I'll just have to pray that God helps me deal with it .

[Diane]

That being said, I have unconditional love for my children and I would always love them. I wouldn't hesitate to tell them that I don't approve of that lifestyle. While I would try very hard to accept a partner in my home, I would not allow any affectionate contact between them in my home. As far as my parents are concerned I KNOW the partner would not be welcome in their home. I'm not entirely sure my child would be.

So often I hear people ask what's happening to society? Where are the morals and values? There's such a surge of people putting aside what they believe in order to not offend anyone when who they should be worried about offending is God.

I think this is what it's come down to, everyone is trying too hard not to offend anyone... or not wanting to be accused of not being open minded or of being too judgemental.

It was easly for me to say it wouldn't be a big deal to me because all my girls are already spoken for... by men, so I feel like I'm safe. LOL If this was not the case I might feel a lot different... but I don't know that for sure because I'm not in that situation. I'm sure I'd be more than disappointed, both for them and for my dh and myself. I've always let my dd's make their own choices/decisions... but I think I would definitely try to do what I could do to change their minds, but in the end the final decision would have to be their's. Instead of causing a lot of friction between us and our dd, I'd do my best to accept the situation... but deep inside I'm sure I wouldn't like it very much, even though I may not totally dislike their partner. (but I'd dislike what they were doing)

I think it's a hard question to answer unless you're in the situation. All I know is that I could NEVER stop loving/caring for any of my dd's... no matter what they did. Were all stuck with each other and will always be here for one another no matter what happens.

[aztec_judy]

I do understand where you both coming from. And I, myself, on the judgemental part of it. I stated to both young ladies that it is a sin, and that it is against God. But that in the end it is thier choice, but that they would be the ones to answer to God for that choice. And I left it at that.
That is why I said that I was not going to preach at them. I felt as if I had stated the facts very openly and that it would NOT be allowed nor tolerated the affection showing in my house.
But they were welcomed. Because I believe our lives can show more than our words in the end.
I am grateful that I had only to tolerate the situation for only about 5? yrs. And that they both ended up being friends still, but that they ended up with men instead. As to how long it was going on I dont' know. But I do know it was for about 5 yrs, that I can say it was happening.
I had also thought myself comfortable in not having to deal with that situtation til I found out about it. I had to eat words that it was NEVER to come into my home NO MATTER what ... lolololol
But am grateful that God allowed me the grace to handle it according to Him.
I suppose I first answered this item, because too quickly we do jump and judge instead of praying about it and allowing Gods work to be done.

[Mickey]

I guess that's why I'm a bad Catholic--my love for my children override my need to adhere to what is written in Leviticus. I'm just much more passionate about motherhood than religion. And I believe with all my heart that God would want me to be this way. I believe He would want me to use the heart and mind that He gave me.

[aztec_judy]

Mickey ... Well, I join that club with you. There are a number of circumstances that I have been involved in that I have had to eat my words with. This being one of them. And this one as with the others .. all I could do was say ... Father, you know my heart, but this is my child we are discussin; and as to whether it be for or against your word, I will not abandon my child !!! so HELPPPP !!!
And He has allowed me the grace to see things thru. But yes my children do come first.

[BevJ]

So often I hear people ask what's happening to society? Where are the morals and values? There's such a surge of people putting aside what they believe in order to not offend anyone when who they should be worried about offending is God.
Linda, you have raised a valid point. And I believe I am such a fence sitter on many issues in life, be it moral/political/religious. I am very tolerant of a homosexual lifestyle, yet I would not be of a husband/wife cheating on their spouse. Does that make me a hypocrite? Probably. I work with so many gay people (5 closely) and I enjoy their company very much. I just recently found out that one's father is a Presbyterian minister. I also learned that someone at work is having a long-distance telephone/internet affair and is hiding the severity (not sure what word I want to use here) of it from her dh and I find it uncomfortable to be around her. I think my main problem with that scenario is that she's lying to her dh. I believe she should be honest with what she wants and either end her marriage and stop lying to her dh and 3 sons or end her "affair".

[Linda/NE]

Mickey ... Well, I join that club with you. There are a number of circumstances that I have been involved in that I have had to eat my words with. This being one of them. And this one as with the others .. all I could do was say ... Father, you know my heart, but this is my child we are discussin; and as to whether it be for or against your word, I will not abandon my child !!! so HELPPPP !!!
And He has allowed me the grace to see things thru. But yes my children do come first.

I don't think God would want anyone to abandon their child. In fact I think God would want you to love your child unconditionally in this situation. This would be the time that the child would need your love and help more than ever. However loving your child sometimes feels more like being mean to them in this situation. As parents how many times do we/have we told our children "No" because something would hurt them or wasn't good for them--be it touching a hot stove or watching a bad movie? That is almost automatic. Yes the child becomes upset with us but we know what is right.

When a person is addicted to drugs or alcohol the 'right' thing to do to help them is to not give them more or money in which they could use to get more. It hurts us to see children in pain and some parents will give to them. They are being 'enablers'. As long as the parents give them the means to continue, they will. What is really going to help though is to deny the child what they want and allow them to experience pain and hurt. No way in this situation is a parent denying their child love and support.

Why do you have to choose between your child or religion? Why isn't there room for both? If one of my children was bound and determined this is how things were going to be, they have free will and would probably do it. As a parent, whether I liked it or not, I would still love them. However,I would not allow certain behaviors in my home, I would make it crystal clear that I believe their lifestyle is wrong, but the love would still be there. I believe that's how God would want me to handle it. I would definitely be doing a lot of praying!!

I don't know if that made a lot of sense or not. LOL IT's late i need to get to bed. (My contacts are sticking to my eyeballs!)

[Linda/NE]

Linda, you have raised a valid point. And I believe I am such a fence sitter on many issues in life, be it moral/political/religious. I am very tolerant of a homosexual lifestyle, yet I would not be of a husband/wife cheating on their spouse. Does that make me a hypocrite? Probably. I work with so many gay people (5 closely) and I enjoy their company very much. I just recently found out that one's father is a Presbyterian minister. I also learned that someone at work is having a long-distance telephone/internet affair and is hiding the severity (not sure what word I want to use here) of it from her dh and I find it uncomfortable to be around her. I think my main problem with that scenario is that she's lying to her dh. I believe she should be honest with what she wants and either end her marriage and stop lying to her dh and 3 sons or end her "affair".

I think too often when people know someone is gay, they associate the sexual activity with it. A gay person may only be attracted to the same sex, but never act on it. Homosexuality, I believe, is only wrong when it's acted upon.

As for the cheating spouse, I think it's easier to have a problem with it because of the commitment involved.

I don't know if that made any sense either. I really need to get to bed.

[KarlaB]

I don't completely buy into the idea that gays and lesbians have no choice. Maybe they don't have a choice to feel that way, they do have a choice to act on it and involve themselves in that kind of relationship. To answer Mickey's question, yes I would encourage them to seek counseling to overcome/or learn to live with it and still keep within the commandments of God. Being gay, in itself isn't wrong, participating in homosexual activity is.

Now, I'm sure my comments have heated some of your blood to close to boiling. This is MY opinion, MY feelings, My belief on the matter. As I'm typing this I questioned whether I'm a prude or something that I can't be as accepting of all this as some of you are. Someday if one of my kids comes to me with this, I'll probably eat these words. I'll just have to pray that God helps me deal with it.

For me, I try to flip it and imagine someone telling me that my feelings towards men/being heterosexual are wrong and that I should be attracted to women and plan a life with them instead, kwim? I am not saying homosexuality is right or that I would be the perfect parent if my kids came home and said they were gay - I just have a difficult time believeing that it's as simple as gay people choosing to be gay and telling them not to act on those feelings. make sense?

No blood boiling here. :) Like you said these are individual feelings, beliefs, opinions - and like you said, until we are really faced with it none of us probably really knows how we would handle it. :)