Testing for students - what kind and how much?

[Lynda/WA]

My 3rd grade son just brought home the results of two test he took this year. One was the Iowa Test of Basic Skills (ITBS) and the other was Degrees of Reading Power (DRP).

What are your reasons for or against national testing and which tests do you feel are the most effective?

BTW - DS scored in the 94th percentile in the ITBS and 95th percentile on the DRP.

[Linda/NE]

I personally don't put much stock into standardized tests. It is a child's performance on one day or at one point in time and there are so many factors that can influence the outcome of them such as test anxiety, feeling sick, being trouble at home/school, argument with friend, etc.

They can be helpful in determining strong or weak areas, however, it'd be the most beneficial to compare scores in concerned areas with the daily grades from those areas.

I personally think the government, society, parents, etc have put too much emphasis on such tests. Some teachers have lost their creativity and motivation to teach.

When I was in college (undergrad) we were told not to concern ourselves with them because of the reasons stated above. When I took classes this fall they still agreed with the above reasons, but are now teaching future teachers to be concerned because a teacher's job could be based on them.

[TXmom]

Well my oldest ds once scored in the 16th percentile on the grammar portion of a standardized test. Think he was tired of filling in ovals LOL?! Throughout school I've always done very well on standardized tests because I have good recognition memory. So, I of course thought they were great when I was doing well and not so great if my kids didn't do well! I think they're a tool to give you part of a picture.

[Lynda/WA]

<it'd be the most beneficial to compare scores in concerned areas with the daily grades from those areas. >

Linda/Ne - I agree with your statement but also feel that a test can point out what a teacher didn't realize and is an objective part of the picture. I'll use my DS as an example. He has always been a quite kid. The teacher can ask a question and even if he knows the answer he doesn't raise his hand. Teachers tend to assume that if you don't know the answer there is a good chance you don't know the answer. In K he had two teachers. Both said they didn't realize he could read as well as he could until they tested all of the kids. They knew he was bright but hadn't pushed him to his upper limit. The reason was because he learned at such a fast rate that he was farther than what they expected. After the testing they began posing their questions to him based on what they had learned he was capable of. In 1st grade he started at the same school so she knew what he was capable as well. Teachers talk and since it was a continuation of the same study program there wasn't a problem. She knew that he tended to make rapid increases in ability. Then he moved to a new state and school mid-year. I went in and talked with the teacher and hand carried a photocopy of his transcript plus a written note from his old teacher. Things went well. They were using the same reading program and had him reread all of the books. I think it was more of a records thing since in 1st he was usually reading grade three books and they started him reading books that had one word per page. They just let him keep redoing then read ahead of the rest of the class after he caught up. They put him in with a 1st/2nd grade class for half of the day. That was great because he was responsible for everything in both classes. They had him doing spelling words in first that I needed to study! He was the rep from his class in the school spelling bee and beat many of the reps from older grades.
Then we moved again and he went to another school still. Everything went to h**l. He got a teacher that taught all kids the exact same stuff at the exact same time. She never even heard DS read out loud until Christmas. Obviously its hard to know what a child can do if you have them sit there and do word finds all day long. When we asked what we could do at home she told us she didn't want the parents doing anything at home. I could count on one hand the number of new things he learned.
We had moved near my DIL who was a 2nd grade teacher (4-5 split this year). Not only would she quiz him everytime she saw him but she also had some fellow teachers talk to him one time from her school. They said he was way above grade level even though his teacher was grading him at grade level.
Then this year (3rd) he again got a good teacher (I was ready to pull him if you remember from other debates). She may have looked at comments from the previous years teacher and seen everything at grade level. She was grading him at grade level but later questioned (in discussions between us) whether he was actually above what they were doing. He wouldn't raise his hand to answer questions but occasionally she would think he wasn't paying attention and ask him a really tough question. He would know the answers everytime. On seatwork he would get a couple of answers wrong just by rushing but always know the hardest stuff put to the class.
I had my own questions as well. When I read aloud and stumble over a word he will be just as likely to correct me. (And I'm an avid reader that read at a college level in middle school). Top that off with how exceptional he was at two other schools and I really suspected they weren't challanging him at this school. I didn't complain though since he was being introduced to new stuff (ironically some of it was things he had done in first his last teacher didn't do in 2nd). Funny how his grades always said improving as expected at this school until now. All of a sudden the 2s all jumped to 4s (exceeds grade level).
This wasn't a single test given on a single day but different types of tests and each test was spread out over a number of days. And the tests give similar results. And the tests jive with what his first 5 teachers said in his previous 2 schools. And they jive with what my SIL said. And they jive with what I am seeing at home. The only factor out of sync with everything else was this school. Even at that I think it was mainly last year's teacher and this year's was questioning the prior teacher's evalualtion. She just didn't realize how much more he could do. She was still a very good teacher.

According to his 1st grade teachers (3 of them) he was reading atleast at a 3rd grade level. According to his second grade teacher he was reading at second grade level. Now in 3rd he's testing at a 7th grade level. Which one doesn't look like the others (sing song like on sesame street!)

According to his 1st grade teachers he was above level in math. My 2nd grade teacher SIL said he could do at the beginning of 1st what her average 2nd grader could do at the end of 2nd grade. His second grade teacher said he was at grade level. He did better than 99 % of all third graders nationally on the Iowa basic Skills test. Again - which one doesn't look like the others (Same song second verse!)

So, yes, I agree, if a test doesn't jive with everything else maybe the student is a poor test taker or just had a bad day. Or maybe they just had a lucky day. In this case I am extremely glad they have to give these tests. Looks like this school has finally realized what the other two schools and everyone else knew.

I think standardized tests can help you look at a situation objectively. Everyone likes to feel they are doing all they can do and that what they are doing is the best. A standardized test is a way to objectively compare programs across the country. Granted you need to allow for statistical error and other faults. It's better then saying my kids did better under this program so it must be best.

[kat]

You just need to remember that standardized tests are just one piece of the puzzle, one tool in the tool box. They are not the end all, be all. Are they beneficial? Yes. Are they the complete picture? No. They measure one point in time, but they can and do give a picture of how a child measures up against others in that age group. To say that it measures one teacher's ability I think is wrong. Most test are not given every year to the same age group. For example we give the ACTAP in 4th grade. Does it measure the effectiveness of the 4th grade teachers? No. It shows the effectiveness of all teachers K-4 and the programs that they are using, as foundation skills are taught, mastered, and built upon. But it is the 4th grade teachers who get the heat, and sadly many are transfering to other grades leaving 4th grade positions occupied by less experienced newer teachers. Are there abuses to the use of standardized tests? You bet. Teaching to the test, cheating on the part of some teachers to get test items out ahead of time, or even "dumbing down". I was very upset this year with my son's 6th grade teachers. This year was a norming year for 6th grade students (norms being set by this year's scores for future comparison). I was concerned about the up-coming test particularly in math, since ds was struggling so. The program stunk (in my opinion), the book was weak and poorly laid out, so I had to search and search to find out how to help with particular problems. I expressed my concerns to the teacher many times, saying "he's not getting this". The teacher was not even aware he had a problem. She failed to see that his daily work (which was started at school but completed at home with much anguish on the part of everyone involved) being "A's" and his test scores being "C's". I continued to express concern as the ACTAP approached and was told, "don't worry, we don't want them to do too good this year". I was appauled. They wanted to "dumb" them down this year, so that next year when compared to the norms, we would look "above average".

It's not a perfect system, but if we use them as what they are: one tool to be used to evaluate not only students, but programs, they can be effective. I'll stop now.