Venting Here

[kat]

I am thoroughly convinced that dh never played with stacking or sorting types of toys when he was a child. Dh is in charge of doing the dishes. When I'm off in the summer I do breakfast and lunch dishes. I go to put up a skillet and everything falls out of the cabinet. Big ones in little ones. He just puts them in there in the order he pulls them out of the dishwasher and never lifts anything in the cabinet to do any kind of stacking according to size. He also never puts serving bowls and utinsils in the same place twice so I have to search each time I cook.

Ok, Brichard, David, Jeff, Bigdaddy, what gives? I know I should be thankful that he helps out, but how hard is it to have a little order. Is this a guy thing or can I actually get him to change. I once mentioned that he needed to tuck in all the blankets and sheets when making the beds so that just the dust ruffle showed under the comforter and the reply I got was, "If you don't like the way I do it, do it yourself". From a man's perspective, what can I do?

[Brichard]

It is funny that you mention this! There is a lady I work with and she was discussing the division of labor in their house. She mentioned the jobs they each liked/disliked. Her husband disliked doing dishes to the point that he wanted to eat off of paper plates. When she said "No," he said "OK, you do the dishes!" So anytime he does volunteer to help, she never comments when he puts things in the wrong place. She knows if she does then he'll never do it again! I also thing she appreciates the gesture knowing how much he hates it.

I think I would be receptive to the feedback, but how you worded it would be very key. I'd make sure to not sound like he is being attacked.

The other thing you may want to remind yourself is that he may very well not know where things go. The subtle changes you may make in putting things away day by day may be going right over his head. We menfolk are simple creatures and you can never give us too much instruction. :)

dw and I used to joke about "booby trapping" each other when we would open that occassional cabinet that was lodged a bit too tight! ;) I would get upset about that if I were you, but again... I'd make him aware in a nice way what is happening.

Oh well, I often put away dishes and you can ask dw what she thinks about my abilitites lol

The thing I dread is our pantry where Tupperware resides. There is just waaaaay to much Tupperware for the space and it is very difficult to keep it orderly.

Do you ladies really need that much Tupperware? lol

[Cathy]

kat, I hear and remember (with all due respect to the approximately 6 men on the planet who are wonderful) that the only thing that you can do from a man's perspective is fall at their feet and grovel that they've attempted to contribute.

The other thing you can do, from any perspective, is continue to vent, and don't start doing it all yourself. Have a good day and hang in there. :rolleyes:

[AnnW]

Amen Cathy!! We are supposed to stand up and cheer and say "WAY TO GO BABY, DOING A GREAT JOB!!!!!!!!" when they load/unload the dishwasher, make a bed..whatever. Cause heaven forbid we hurt their feelings!!! But heaven help us if we do one of "their" chores differently!!! Then we did it wrong and gosh why are you being so "sensitive", it's just "constructive criticism".
My personal feeling is that they just don't care if they are stacked right and are secretly hoping by doing it wrong you will never asked them to do it again! LOL

[Brichard]

Well Ann W I have a totally different perspective then you on the whole wife/husband help thing. dw is actually much better at the traditional "man" jobs and I am more then willing to let her pitch in! She can just put things together better then me. Now if you need something heavy lifted, mowing the lawn, digging a hole... I'm your man.

I see so many wive's who only want things done "their" way, so they won't let their husbands contribute. I know I don't put the laundry back exactly like dw would like, but I know she appreciates that I do most of the laundry. I know other wives where if the man makes one washing mistake he is immediately fired from future assignments! And realistically, I don't think men sabotage helping out around the house although I'm sure it happens.

dw constantly compliments me on my contributions around the house, but you know what... I do the same for her.

My point is that we all have fragile egos to a point and brow beating won't accomplish anything for either of you.

Provide instruction, be complimentary... what's wrong with that?

Now if you aren't being appreciated my your dh, that is a different matter.

[TXmom]

It must be genetic cuz I've started making ds unload the dishwasher and he does the same thing! And let's just say he certainly didn't learn how to put dishes away from dh.

And yes brichard, we do need all that Tupperware LOL! What on earth would I do without my Velveeta cheese keeper that sits in the cabinet?

[KarlaB]

Originally posted by AnnW
My personal feeling is that they just don't care if they are stacked right and are secretly hoping by doing it wrong you will never asked them to do it again! LOL

ITA! :biglaugh: Worked for dh with packing...I was complaining to my sis that he hadn't been helping with packing and then soon realized how lucky I was after seeing the one box he packed....I think I'd rather just do it all! :lol:

Hang in there, kat. My dh is the same way when putting away stuff. It's like he's in such a rush to just be done with it and doesn't care how they go in the cupboard. Funny because he's so anal about the organization of other things. :tearhair:

[Amy2]

Kat, if you have talked with him about this, told him very nicely that it bothers you that the dishes fall out of the cupboard and could he please stack according to size, and he still doesn't do it, then I think it's probably either a control issue, or he simply doesn't care about how you want it. It's not brain surgery, he could change it if he wanted to, but he simply doesn't want to. Laziness? Disregard? I don't know.

You can't make him change, so if he won't change how he does it, you can either do it yourself, or deal with it. But I wonder how he would feel if you went and "arranged" the tools or his "gear" (whatever that may be) in a different way?

My DH once said to me before we were married "If we're going to stay together, you're going to have to learn how I want my underwear folded." I said to him "If we're going to stay together, you're going to have to learn to say 'thank you so much' if I ever fold your underwear again." Needless to say he never complained about how I did it again!

I'm with Ann, though, I think sometimes guys do stuff poorly so we just get fed up and do it ourselves.

Amy

[Mickey]

I agree that there are exceptions and not ALL men are the same, but my dh has learned that if he rants and raves and makes a big enough of a production out of a task that I ask him to do, I won't ask him again. It is easier for me to just take the trash out than to ask him--when I ask him, he always says, "OK, in a minute." Then when he does get to it, he struggles at the can with the bag for 5 minutes, grunting and groaning. "Where are the bags???" (Same place they always are.) "Is this bag leaking?" (Nope.) "What's in here--it stinks!" (Garbage!) LOL! It drives me nuts, so I take 30 seconds (literally) and do it myself. It's just not worth the hassle to ask him.

We have an agreement that I'm ok with now. He works many hours for our company and travels quite a bit, so I do what I can and hire people for anything I can't handle and dh is very fine with that (his suggestion).

[AnnW]

Gosh, Brichard...you have a different viewpoint..what a surprise!!! LOL :newwink:

[Amy]

I don't know if Im lucky or jealous of you all! LOL My dh is a neat freak and everything has its place. He usually does all the dishes while I put away the food. If he is feeling frisky, he will empty the dishwasher before work. The PROBLEM is I hate housework and he nags me to keep things as anally clean as he would like. Yeah like that would happen with two small kids, a hairy dog and a even hairier cat. LOL

[Brichard]

Originally posted by AnnW
Gosh, Brichard...you have a different viewpoint..what a surprise!!! LOL :newwink:

rofl Ann!

Its funny but this reminds me so much of something dw has been talking about with Dr. Phil from Oprah. He said that his wife always complains that he has to ask for direction. She will say "If I have to ask then it doesn't mean as much," and he said "I hate it when she says that!"

Some men are genuinely lazy and won't move and I acknowledge that. But I also see some wives who "love to hate it" if you know what I mean. They complain that they never get help, but they never allow themselves to be helped either.

I just think one of the common occurences of a breakdown in communication between mean and women is this:

Women want men to listen more and try to solve their problems less.

Men want women to tell us what you want and provide instruction rather then having us try to guess our way through!

:biglaugh:

[jwmcdaniel]

"We are supposed to stand up and cheer and say "WAY TO GO BABY, DOING A GREAT JOB!!!!!!!!" when they load/unload the dishwasher, make a bed..whatever."

Oh AnnW, how many times have I said the exact same thing??!!!
Ugh!

We have the same 'issue' at our house about the stacking of the plastic ware - he hollers if it falls, but if he'd stack it instead of throwing, slamming the door and running, we wouldn't have this 'issue'. (And he's an engineer for goodness sakes! I'd think he'd have it better arranged then I do!) :) lol

The other bur in my saddle is putting the clean clothes away - sometimes I just don't get it all done and ask for his help - huh! His stuff is put away and 1/2 of mine is still out. He says, "I didn't know where your pants went." DUH!!! The same place yours and most others go......gee, I don't know how he holds down a job sometimes. :)

[AnnW]

One of my favorite Dr. Phil moments was one time when a husband was going on and on about how much he can understand his wife's needs, how he acknowledges her frustrations, how he is there to hear her complaints.... and Dr Phil says ..."quit acknowledging and DO something!!!" LOL
I agree that there might be some women who "love to hate it", and might never be satisified, but I think that it is fairly self serving to think that attitude is common.





and btw..why are you only picking on ME.... Cathy started it !!!!!!!!!!!!! LOL

[AnnW]

Originally posted by jwmcdaniel
"
The other bur in my saddle is putting the clean clothes away - sometimes I just don't get it all done and ask for his help - huh! His stuff is put away and 1/2 of mine is still out. He says, "I didn't know where your pants went." DUH!!! The same place yours and most others go......gee, I don't know how he holds down a job sometimes. :)


ROFL!!! One time I heard the washing machine running on a Saturday and asked dh about it..he said "oh, I am just doing some laundry". I thought "WOW! what a guy" (told him so too). Later, I go back to the bedroom and there are a bunch of clothes in the laundry basket..look a little closer and they were all MINE. He had picked through the basket and gotten all of HIS clothes but left mine!!!!
Gee...wonder if that would work for me????! LOL

[jwmcdaniel]

HA! I beg dh NOT to wash mine!! (not a lot of arm twisting, I'll tell ya) I'll get something out of the closet and think -- hummmm, I COULND'T have gained THAT much since I last wore this!! - Come to find out, he'd done some laundry..... :{

Ever had this happen ---- dh does the laundry and dumps the clean clothes on the floor???

Baffeling, totallybaffeling...... :crazyroll

[jwmcdaniel]

Whew! I better go to bed - my spelling is the pits and my words ran together in the previous post! I better go before I accidentally type something offensive! :)

This has been fun and sooooo theraputic to see I'm not the only one with a tupperware/laundry challenged marriage!! :)

G'nite and let me know the next counselling session! :)

[netmechwife]

This is all toooooo funny!:sillyface Dh is helpful when things get frustratingly behind for him. Then to help clean the kitchen he throws everything in the sink (of course only I know what is really dirty. ;) )

But he does like to cook and alot of times he will start supper if he notices I have had a rough day at "work" (home). He also does a really good job cleaning when he gets frustrated. So do I come to think of it! :) He also sometimes gets in a great "I think I'll fix everything I've been putting off" mood. And he has learned to tread lightly and consienciously when we discuss what is lacking in our home. I guess I have too.

And with the tupperware thing: I think tupperware corp. would make a LOT of money if they would design a tupperware organization system ( my mil is a tupper consultant and dh signed under her so she could make manager... not that he has sold anything. lol We've been buying it for ourselves. We finally stopped because we have too much and as oddly as this sounds theres not much left to buy. lol) Our Tupper cupboard doesn't usually stay organized for more than 2-3 days. But it makes a great distraction for 2 year olds.....

[Cathy]

Thanks, Ann, for throwing me to the wolves. I'll remember that next time someone takes a shot at short Texans. ;) Brichard doesn't 'know me well enough' to pick on me, though. And I did allow him to identify himself as one of the exceptions.

I agree that many women want things done exactly the way they would do it. But men want it done by their wife....peacefully, quietly, neatly, and without complaint.
Division of labor is a separate issue. When I was married (in those days of long ago) I shoveled the driveway, cut the lawn, kept the house running, took complete responsibility for the children, etc.... everything but electrical work. He took the cars for oil changes, painted, cooked (more than occasionally), and complained about the way I did everything else. Now, I take care of my own car, hire painters, and teach my dd's to cook. I also kept all my other chores (and have actually installed light fixtures without frying anyone!). All with no criticism.....ahhhh. LOL

I envy people who have an actual partnership, however they divide chores and define roles. If you have one of those, do what you have to, to keep it working.

I'd also rather have tupperware falling out of my cupboards on me, than something heavier, like dishes, knives or canned food-so hold on to some perspective.

[AnnW]

Originally posted by Cathy
Thanks, Ann, for throwing me to the wolves. I'll remember that next time someone takes a shot at short Texans. ;)


You don't think I was gonna hang on that tree all by myself do you?????? :newwink:

[Cathy]

You're small and not such a big target. Besides, you were handling it fine....

[MaryL]

This is such a funny thread! I absolutely can't believe it when I'll ask my dh to empty the garbage and he'll push it down deep into the container. When I question him about it, he'll say that HE didn't think it was full. .....thanks, honey. (gag gag) I also agree with the laundry things....his stuff gets put away, and mine is out! "I wasn't sure where to put it." I wonder if that would work for me! I do like to have some things done my way....but heck, anyone can vacuum and dust....or run a dishwasher load. Dh is wonderful about outside jobs...grass, fix-it stuff. He works much longer hours than me, and travels alot. I heard once that women traditionally do the everyday jobs (dishes, clothes, cleaning in the house, cooking, etc), while men traditionally do the "occasional" jobs (yardwork, fix-its, car repairs, taking out garbage). I can see that in my house.

[KarlaB]

Originally posted by AnnW



ROFL!!! One time I heard the washing machine running on a Saturday and asked dh about it..he said "oh, I am just doing some laundry". I thought "WOW! what a guy" (told him so too). Later, I go back to the bedroom and there are a bunch of clothes in the laundry basket..look a little closer and they were all MINE. He had picked through the basket and gotten all of HIS clothes but left mine!!!!
Gee...wonder if that would work for me????! LOL

Watch out, Ann. My sil did that to my bil right before she left him! :newwink: :D

[Brichard]

Now Annabelle, if I can't pick on you why would I come to the IB?

roflmbo!


I think Cathy hit the perfect chord by saying "division of labor."

I have always lived in environments where people are in charge of certain things. Even in college, I lived with three other guys (one was my twin!) and we had a system for everything. There were two teams of two. Of the team, one would cook and the other would do the dishes. On Friday's we would just cook pizza to break up the week into even days! A similar thing would happen with house cleaning. We kept the front room picked up and were each in charge of our rooms. But, we did a weekly deep cleaning where 2 went to the grocery store and 2 stayed and cleaned. It worked out rather well!

With Angie and I, I am in charge of laundry, dishes, bills, and trash. We both like cutting the grass and split that chore. dw is in charge of cooking and basically everything else! Obviously we have to share responsibility to do a deep cleaning, but even then I usually will take the kitchen and bathrooms or something like that. Also, with my working sometimes I get behind on laundry and dw will catch me up. And on a rare exception I take care of dinner.... usually carry-out!

dw is soooo much faster at cleaning then I am. I have seen studies where they think men are not biologically capable of handling several tasks/conversations at a time... and I believe it!

I think that is another reason why division of labor works out best. If we each spent 30 minutes my efforts would pale in comparison! But, if dw knows I will take care of certain things it seems to make it easier on both of us.


And I admit... I have a "thing" about being asked to do something "right now." I am much happier if I can do it in my own time.

[Cathy]

Brichard, I'm totally okay with you picking on Ann. I know she is too. ;)
I think it's good when labor is divided through verbal and respectful agreement. Sometimes it makes sense for each person to contribute from their strength (or according to their pet peeve!). I think a lot of households simply make adjustments automatically, to "traditional" (wife-homemaker--husband-breadwinner and heavy lifter) roles. That's where resentment creeps in, and if communication isn't clear....problems result.

You do laundry and dishes....and bathrooms?? Consider me awed!! 8o

[AnnW]

Originally posted by Cathy
Brichard, I'm totally okay with you picking on Ann. I know she is too. ;)




You are SO kind Cathy!!!! LOL




[

[AnnW]

Originally posted by Brichard
Now Annabelle, if I can't pick on you why would I come to the IB?




Just giving your life some purpose!!!!!!!!! ROFL :newwink:

[Cathy]

Ann,
Thanks for noticing..most people would never suspect that kindness is one of my qualities. Witness my dd's who regard me as the meanest, most snake-like, ice-water pumping human on earth. All part of my general charm, I'm sure.

[AnnW]

Originally posted by Cathy
Ann,
Thanks for noticing..most people would never suspect that kindness is one of my qualities. Witness my dd's who regard me as the meanest, most snake-like, ice-water pumping human on earth. All part of my general charm, I'm sure.

You're welcome! I just LOVE watching my kids' faces when they get mad at me and shout "you are so mean" and I reply "SO???"
they are just stunned that I don't care! LOL

[Mickey]

Originally posted by Brichard


I just think one of the common occurences of a breakdown in communication between mean and women is this:


...between meAn and women??? LOL! Just had to say that I loved that Freudian slip, Brichard! ;)

[Brichard]

Originally posted by Mickey


...between meAn and women??? LOL! Just had to say that I loved that Freudian slip, Brichard! ;)

Yeah, I saw that typo right after I posted it but figured somebody would enjoy it!

:)

[Amy2]

Okay, at first I thought it was a slip, but now I see that someone else's dh has done it too...doing HIS laundry, and "forgetting" the basket of kids/my stuff upstairs. Hmmmmmm...

DH will clean the bathroom only if I specifically ask him, or if I have been out of town (he always makes the house spotless before we come home.) He often cooks dinner, but I always do lunch and breakfasts unless I specifically ask, or if by some miracle I get to sleep in! He will unload the dishwasher pretty often.

That said, our work loads are totally divided by gender. He maintains the cars (of course he couldn't take them in and have someone else do it! Imagine!) He does the yard work. I do the flower pots and beds, he does the poop scooping and lawn. He does all things "male" and I am the one who does the house stuff.

We both shop, we both care for the kids...it's a pretty darned equal partnership for he most part.

Amy

[Leigh]

I guess I have it lucky. Dh helps me do house work. The only two things that he won't do is cook and laundry. He likes the house spottless, so if I don't have time to do it, he does it, but we do have an agreement I don't complain about what he does and he doesn't gripe about what I do.