How much choice do you allow your child re:religion?

[KathyT]

Our oldest dd has always been what I will call a deep thinker. One of her teachers once said she has an "old soul" meaning sometimes she is just too intense for an almost-nine-year-old. We are Catholic and this year she is making her first Reconciliation. Well she is protesting big time and asking me all kinds of questions: what have I done at 8 years old that is so bad I have to confess to a priest? Are some sins worse than others? How come I have to go through the priest if God is always willing to forgive me? If Jesus is always in my heart, why do we have to go through a special ceremony? Why can't I decide what my own penance is? OMG!!!! It goes on and on and on, and I am worn out. They had to complete workbooks this year, and she thinks they are "silly" and have nothing to do with reconciliation, and the sad thing is, she's right!! I know she is going to fight me next year on the whole Catechism thing, and I am just wondering when you let your child have any input into his/her religious life? Thanks.

By the way, she is very anaylytical regarding just about everything else in her life too, not just religion, lol!

[MK]

My dh is a virgo, and he is very much like your daughter. Even though he has a deep faith in God, he is also the type of person who has to know the answers, everything must make sense, etc. If you asked him why the sky is blue, instead of saying, "Because God made it that way, isn't it pretty?", he would go into a lecture on color apsorption theory.

Anyway, having been raised with a very strict religious upbringing myself, and then having left that church well into adulthood, my husband and I have made the commitment to raise our children with not only a deep seated faith in God and the knowledge that He loves and cares for us, but also with the freeagency to choose and decide for themselves what they believe, and the paths they will take. In the church I was brought up in, children are almost always baptised at the age of 8. I was one of those children, but to tell you the truth I don't think I really understood what it was all about until much later. We have decided not to have our children baptised until they show that they are ready, and that they truly desire it. And they will be granted the freeagency to choose the church they feel fits their personal belief system. In fact, we want them to be exposed to other religions so they can make an educated decision for themselves. Religious Faith is such a personal and important freedom to humans it only makes sense to us to grant that freedom to our children. In fact, we have spoken to my parents (who were very disappointed when I left the church of my upbringing)about raising our boys if anything should happen to us that would render us unable, and we have made it clear to them that we want our children to have religious freedom, and exposure to multiple churches, and they are not to be "coaxed" or pressured into joining one particular church. They (surprisingly)have agreed. Well, I hope that helps.

Kathy T--I think it's great that she's thinking so much about her religion and developing her own faith. And that she's debating it with you is wonderful. One way to explain the difference between a forgiving God and Reconciliation is to remind her that it is a Sacrament that has a particular form. The priest may not be necessary to be forgiven, but the grace and Act of Contrition are part of the Sacrament. The other thing about penance is a lot of priests assign relevant penance now, rather than the say prayers penance when I was a kid. The emphasis has shifted to repairing the damage, rather than just moving on. Also, there is almost certainly nothing BAD that she has done, but there are probably choices that she has made that were selfish or spiteful. (I still get caught on that, over and over.)

[AnnW]

Kathy, I don't know some of the fine points of Catholism, but as far as her sin questions, you might want to tell her this. In God's eyes all sins are equal, so yelling at your sister is just as bad as murder (personally, this is one I do struggle with daily!). Also, arrogance (thinking you haven't done anything wrong or worth confessing) is a sin in God's eyes. God will forgive all of our sins if we are truly, in our hearts, repentant, so that is why you need to go to God (or in your case, the preist) and confess your your sin and ask for forgiveness. Also the act of confessing it aloud, actually makes you think about it more...it's harder to brush it off as no big deal if you have to say it out loud.

Also, let her know that it is ok to ask questions, by asking the questions, it really does help her to know and understand the Lord better.

Good luck!

[Diane]

I always let my children decide for themselves what they want to believe or not believe in. In the past I've found that if I push it... it only turns them off more. I think when it comes to something like this, it's good for them to decide for themselves what is right for them.

I have a friend who INSISTED that her children do certain things... when they grew up they HATED and resented church so much they now refuse to go. My oldest dd is now very active in her church, and I know that we had pushed it... she wouldn't be going either. My dh was more of the "pusher" and didn't agree with me when I told him to leave her alone. Now he's glad we let her make her own choice. Good luck!

[Melody]

I am not looking forward to my ds to get to that point because I am not active in the church, religion and don't know the answers. Dh grew up in it but we never went as kids. Even though I converted when I got married, it is not the same choice I would make now. I am glad that dh's family can answer many of the questions but as far as personal choices, I will let them decide what is best for them when they are old enough to understand more. I cannot give them answers to questions and expect them to believe it just because a church said it's true. I know that dh expects them to be raised a certain way since that is what I agreed to but I certainly won't be pushing them to attend or follow certain 'guidelines' set out before them.
I think it is good that your daughter is asking so many question and if she is right, let her know that.

[Amy2]

It sounds to me like your "deep thinker" is asking herself all the right questions. I wasn't raised in any religion, though consider myself a very spiritual person. I tell my children what I believe, but encourage them to figure out for themselves what is true for them. I think we lead best by example, and I agree that forcing kids makes them resentful and often rebellious.

[AnnW]

Maybe this is more of a debate question...but what is it about religion that makes us all so freaked...so afraid to "force" our views on our kids? We "force" our kids to do things every single day that they don't want to, but that we think are for their own good.....brush their teeth, eat vegetables, go to school, look both ways for cars...ect. Some of us choose to discipline our kids with spanking, some with time out..both, I am sure, are not favorite with our kids. We make our kids come in from play and heavens, bathe when we decide they need it. We tell our children when they are old enough to go alone down the block on their bike..we don't let them decide that for themselves. We would never in a million years say to our child, "well, in my personal belief, brushing your teeth is very good and beneficial to your teeth's health, but you decide on your own what you think is best" (LOL) but yet we do it with something so important as religion. Why is it that we are so afraid to "impose" our beliefs upon our children in this ONE area only???

[MK]

Great question AnnW! If you think about it, though, there is always an "age of accountability" with every aspect of discipline/development in a child's life. For instance, when your children are small you tell them to brush their teeth because you are responsible for their health. But when they become teenagers, they might not always be very good about it, and when they become adults they will assume the accountability for their mistakes. The best we can do is teach our children and try to instill in them a firm knowledge of what we stand for, our personal values, and hope they will make responsible decisions in their lives when the time comes to do so for themselves. Life is full of hard lessons to learn, even in adulthood (boy, don't we know it, lol!), and ultimately every child must assume accountability for his/her mistakes at some point in his/her life. Perhaps allowing religious freeagency is one of the ways we help our children learn this fundamental principal of life. Perhaps it is most natural to us because our spirits are such a deep part of our subconcious beings (for lack of better words), a connection to something no one can really explain, but we feel. And perhaps religion is one way we can instill firm personal beliefs and values, and develop a strong moral character which will carry over into adulthood, and influence all their other daily life decisions.

OOOOH Good question, AnnW. My daughter told me when she was 12 that going to church didn't do anything for her but spoil her Sunday. She said that it was a waste of time because she didn't know if she believed any of "that stuff" anyway.I told her that I believed enough for both of us and I'd carry her until she found her own faith, but that attending Mass was not a choice in our family. I actually laughed at the idea that she thought she had a choice. (Not nice, I know.) At 15 she joined the Youth Council for the Diocese and is working to build a stronger CYO in our parish. She found her own faith and recognizes its importance in making decisions about how she will live her life. It is a struggle to be decent in this society, and an outright battle to be holy. To me, religion is a firm basis for living. JMHO

[beth c]

My daughter told me when she was 12 that going to church didn't do anything for her but spoil her Sunday. She said that it was a waste of time because she didn't know if she believed any of "that stuff" anyway.I told her that I believed enough for both of us and I'd carry her until she found her own faith, but that attending Mass was not a choice in our family. I actually laughed at the idea that she thought she had a choice. (Not nice, I know.) At 15 she joined the Youth Council for the Diocese and is working to build a stronger CYO in our parish. She found her own faith and recognizes its importance in making decisions about how she will live her life. It is a struggle to be decent in this society, and an outright battle to be holy. To me, religion is a firm basis for living. JMHO

Well said Cathy. I like the way you explained it to her. I do believe that children have to mature to a point that they recognize how important religious beliefs are. I am like you-I will continue to take my children to church each Sunday until they see the value in it on their own. I know as a child I thought church was a waste of time but my parents insisted I go and now I could not live without a solid religious structure in my life.

beth c - I have wondered, at crisis points in my life, how people can get through without faith. I'm pretty sure I couldn't have.

[beth c]

I could not have either. Religion is a very important thing isn't it?

[AnnW]

Originally posted by Cathy
beth c - I have wondered, at crisis points in my life, how people can get through without faith. I'm pretty sure I couldn't have.

I know I never could have made it through without it. It's air to me.

[Linda/NE]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by AnnW
[B]Kathy, I don't know some of the fine points of Catholism, but as far as her sin questions, you might want to tell her this. In God's eyes all sins are equal, so yelling at your sister is just as bad as murder (personally, this is one I do struggle with daily!).

(Not trying to start a debate here, just relaying the info as I've been taught)

I have always been taught that there IS a difference in sins and a big part of reconciliation is that it is very important to confess Mortal sins (killing, stealing, sexual related,etc) before receiving other sacraments, like communion/eucharist.

I do agree that confessing the sins outloud make it seem more 'real', maybe makes a bigger impact.

Kathy, could it be that the religious instructors or the priest are just not connecting to her? My oldest son didn't want anything to do with reconciliation or religion last year. Over the summer we got a new priest, and that has made all the difference!! While my son still isn't overly thrilled about religion, he doesn't resist it either.

We tried the 'let the kids decide' idea before dh joined the church and what we found, even at 4 yrs. old was that they chose what was easier. It wasn't as big a deal to miss church with dh as it was with me. There wasn't as much emphasis on reverence (being quiet) in his church as in mine. The boys hated going with me because as they said it was no fun. I was raised that you don't go to church to have fun!

I personally, would hang in there and make it clear how important these things are. Try to find someone who could help you explain these things much clearer. I think Ann maybe aluded to this,,we wouldn't let a 8 yr. old decide other things about her life such as drug/alcohol use. I don't see this as forcing it on a child, I see it as guiding and directing. JMO

Good luck!!

[AnnW]

That's one of the differences between Protestant and Catholic is the mortal sin/venial sin thing. I actually like that concept alot and wish that we did have that..like I said, I struggle with that issue daily. Protestants get their definition of sin from the book of Romans, and Paul is pretty clear that a sin is a sin is a sin.

[Amy2]

To Ann W and Beth C~ I found that at my most intense time of crisis, "religion" actually hindered my healing. The "religious" people I knew wanted so much to "make things okay" by saying really pat things that didn't ring true for me at all ("it's all God's plan, God doesn't give you more than you can handle"...you've heard them all) it was as though I wasn't supposed to ponder my experiences, grieve through them, understand them in my way.

I think where I connect this to the discussion about children is it's all about FAITH, and Faith is something that is in your heart. Either you believe or you don't believe (or you believe your own things and not what a particular church tells you) and someone making you sit there and listen isn't going to give you Faith. And if the tenets of a certain religon doesn't make sense to you, then it seems it would push the person/child even farther away making them go through the motions when it feels wrong to them.

That said, I think it is important to offer them options, show them what you as a parent believe, give them time to reflect, time to pray or whatever. Amy

[KathyT]

I wanted to thank all of you for giving me a lot of food for thought. The conclusion I reached is that at 9 years old she is not capable of making the right decision for her concerning religion, it is such a "huge" issue, so we have made the decision for her, and she is ok with that. We had a great talk, boy she is really growing up, and we told her that we would always respect what she has to say, but at this point in her religious life, we would continue to guide her. She agreed, no questions asked, but did ask if she could still question things, and we encouraged her to do so.

So thank you very much to everyone who responded, all answers were very helpful.

[AnnW]

Originally posted by KathyT
I wanted to thank all of you for giving me a lot of food for thought. The conclusion I reached is that at 9 years old she is not capable of making the right decision for her concerning religion, it is such a "huge" issue, so we have made the decision for her, and she is ok with that. We had a great talk, boy she is really growing up, and we told her that we would always respect what she has to say, but at this point in her religious life, we would continue to guide her. She agreed, no questions asked, but did ask if she could still question things, and we encouraged her to do so.

So thank you very much to everyone who responded, all answers were very helpful.

What a wonderful little girl you have!!! Sounds like you handled it great. I think by encouraging her to ask questions not only will it help her, but it will bring ya'll closer and help you and your dh understand the foundations of your beliefs. You are going a great job!

[Amy2]

I posted a response to this thread last week, and it isn't here. I was wondering if the moderator deleted it? Is my computer not working? Hmmmmm....

[Amy2]

Yay! I found myself! Wow, if only it were that easy in life!

[KathyT]

Awwww, thanks Ann. It is a good feeling when you come through something with your kids and you feel like all the pieces fell into place isn't it? Thanks again for you input.

[AnnW]

Originally posted by KathyT
Awwww, thanks Ann. It is a good feeling when you come through something with your kids and you feel like all the pieces fell into place isn't it? Thanks again for you input.

NP...yep..love those moments!!!

[AnnW]

Originally posted by Amy
To Ann W and Beth C~ I found that at my most intense time of crisis, "religion" actually hindered my healing. The "religious" people I knew wanted so much to "make things okay" by saying really pat things that didn't ring true for me at all ("it's all God's plan, God doesn't give you more than you can handle"...you've heard them all) it was as though I wasn't supposed to ponder my experiences, grieve through them, understand them in my way.

Amy

I think that most people (strong Christians or not) don't really know what to say in a crisis and often fall back on platitudes. We want to make you feel better, but don't know how. I know before I had my miscarriages, I said many times to a friend who had one "oh, it must be for the best" or "God doesn't give you more than you can handle"...all of which are true, BUT now having been through several, I realize how at the time, those aren't the words you want to hear! Sometimes the hardest thing for a friend to do is to be quiet and let the person greive and heal.

[AnnW]

I get daily inspiration messages from my church on email, and this was today's...it made me think of you. :)

A sacrament is an action where words cannot get in the way.

I Corinthians 11:26 -- For as often as you eat this bread and drink the
cup, you proclaim the Lord's death until he comes.

[Amy2]

Yes, Ann, I suppose with some it's because they dont know what else to say when they say unhelpful things. I know that my most intense times made me really ponder my spiritual self more than I ever had, and frankly, sometimes I wished did I believed because I'm think it might have helped me have a place to "put everything." Still...
I'm sorry for your losses, that is so hard. Amy

[AnnW]

Originally posted by Amy
Yes, Ann, I suppose with some it's because they dont know what else to say when they say unhelpful things. I know that my most intense times made me really ponder my spiritual self more than I ever had, and frankly, sometimes I wished did I believed because I'm think it might have helped me have a place to "put everything." Still...
I'm sorry for your losses, that is so hard. Amy

Thank you..fortunately for me, my faith was able to sustain me during those times..didn't mean I didn't question, get angry or yell at God, but it helped me to have something to hang on to.

[KathyT]

Thank you!! I appreciate your thinking of me.

[MaryL]

We don't give our children an option. I think they are too young to "decide" if they "like" church or not. Frankly, it is boring for kids at times. (This coming from a parochial school teacher who brings her 18 kindergartners to church each week!). However, as I tell my boys, it's just something that we do in our family...end of discussion! As they get older, we may need to have more answers for them...however, I feel comfortable knowing that I've given them a religious/spiritual start. What they do as adults will be up to them... The more that children are familiar with the church, or their religion, the more comfortable they may become. Is there a youth group??? That is usually a great start for getting adolescents and teens interested and involved in their religion. Do you (or can you) give an option for the "time" you attend services?? (For instance, we can go on Saturday night...before dinner...or on Sunday morning.) This might give your child a little more control over his/her feelings. Religion is a very personal decision...but one a family must make together and believe in.