Creative Correction

[SSWeaser]

For those of you who have difficult children, or who have just run out of ideas, I would highly recommend this book by Lisa Welchel. It is available both on her website (same name) and on Focus on the Family's website www.focus.org

I have 5 kids all with different temperments. Spanking no longer worked on them and we needed new ideas. This book is great!! We no longer have the power struggle battles that end with a more angry kid.

[Amy2]

I would be hard pressed to take discipline advice from someone who doesn't spank because it "no longer works" on her children!

Amy

[TXmom]

Amy

But, isn't one of the criticisms of spanking that it doesn't really work? Or, are you saying she wouldn't be a credible source of advice because she spanked in the first place?

[RCT]

yes Ann thats her...funny I was just at her sight yesterday, we my friend and I, were looking for the "Facts of life reunion movie" information...Nov. 5, 2001 on ABC....LOL.....I know were strange....anyway the site I found had a link to her site and it was interesting...she is married to a Bishop or Minister...and they are traveling around the country in a winapego on a book signing tour and scrap booking it on line for everyone it was interesting...I don't know much about her discipline thoughts but I know she is homeschooling her three children and has written some books....I guess its worth taking a look at her books over the internet....funny coiencidence....LOL..


OK AnnW...I was responding to you and now your post is missing?

[AnnW]

Originally posted by RCT


OK AnnW...I was responding to you and now your post is missing?

ROFL!!! when I realized it was, I deleted my post!

I actually admire alot of things about her. She took a stand for beliefs while she was doing FoL admist alot of pressure. She got married right after the show ended to a minister and started having babies. She has chosen to be a sahm versus pursuing any "hollywood" stuff. They are now traveling as a family across country in a winebago.

[RCT]

LOL, thought I was going crazy there for a moment....:biglaugh:

yes she is an interesting woman...I admire her for sticking to her choices.....it must be hard to hear critizism from the public...I have to her it just from family and its hard....LOL


The traveling sounds interesting...I don't know if it would be my dream, but it is fun to read some of these idea....Geraldo Rivera, in a bold move to save his marriage...took his entire family around the world on a boat took them a year....althought the marriage never was repaired....the show aired on PBS and it was interesting what the children and parents did on the down time....anyway...getting side track here.....LOL..

[AnnW]

Just trying to keep you on your toes!!!!!!!!!!!!! LOL

Saw that show too...think that would RUIN my marriage!!!!!! LOL

[Diane]

Originally posted by RCT
yes Ann thats her...funny I was just at her sight yesterday, we my friend and I, were looking for the "Facts of life reunion movie" information...Nov. 5, 2001 on ABC....LOL.....I know were strange....anyway the site I found had a link to her site and it was interesting...she is married to a Bishop or Minister...and they are traveling around the country in a winapego on a book signing tour and scrap booking it on line for everyone it was interesting...I don't know much about her discipline thoughts but I know she is homeschooling her three children and has written some books....I guess its worth taking a look at her books over the internet....funny coiencidence....LOL..


OK AnnW...I was responding to you and now your post is missing?

I was really wondering what/who you were responding about Renee... I thought maybe I had missed something and evidently I did... Ann's post. LOL

Diane... :wave:

[RCT]

LOL :biglaugh:

[AnnW]

Originally posted by Diane P.


I was really wondering what/who you were responding about Renee... I thought maybe I had missed something and evidently I did... Ann's post. LOL

Diane... :wave:


ROFL!!!!!!!!!! I posted "is this the Fact of Life" star? then realized it was, so I just deleted my question not realizing that Renee was responding..it wasn't even posted but a minute!!!!!!!! LOL

[RCT]

hey, I am quick like a bunny :bunny: this morning....:biglaugh: :lol:

[Diane]

Originally posted by RCT
hey, I am quick like a bunny :bunny: this morning....:biglaugh: :lol:

LOL... too funny!!! :)

Diane... :wave:

[kat]

Originally posted by Amy
I would be hard pressed to take discipline advice from someone who doesn't spank because it "no longer works" on her children!

Amy

I'm with Donna. I'm unsure as to why you would not be taking this advice. I think spanking has it's place, but like any form of discipline, not every method works with every child. You do have to find what works and discard what doesn't. If any form of discipline does not result in a change of behavior, then why would you keep using it.

[RCT]

Originally posted by SSWeaser
For those of you who have difficult children, or who have just run out of ideas.


Hey I resemble this statement....both my kids are difficult....LOL...sorry I couldn't resist.....I spank in certain situations....but we do the Magic 1 2 3 system and that has been working for us lately.....I tried getting to this url, but haven't had anyluck....am always interested in new Discipline ideas.....thanks SSWeaser....

sorry this thread got off the track....my vault....:tinysmile

[PamE]

Renee, I couldn't get in on the focus.org either. Try www.creativecorrections.com and that will take you to her site where you can get the book, or just check out the ones she has listed.

I think she has a lot of interesting ideas and have tried a few. There are some that won't work because of the ages or temperament of my kids but there have been a few that worked like a charm! :)

[RCT]

Thanks Pam....it worked....I think I might try and locate some of her stuff in our library....thanks for the tip.

BTW she sure looks like she has it together....way to go.:tinysmile

[Amy2]

I believe in the theory that to "discipline" means "to teach" and I think that spanking teaches the wrong thing. When someone says it "no longer works" it implies to me that they spank frequently, or enough that it's initial use, usually to put a swift stop to an unwanted behavior, is no longer effective. I would be hard pressed, as I said, to take discipline advice from someone who believes that spanking is an effective teaching tool.

I gave my ds a single swat twice in his life. The first time it was very "effective" because he threw his arms around me and said "Mommy, was that really rude?" and we had a long talk about consequences and him listening to me, etc, etc. It was kind of great because of the conversation that ensued. The second time it was so FRIGHTENINGLY easy to resort to whacking him after having done it once, and clearly it was not about teaching him anything but about my own frustration with him. I never did it again.

I feel it is totally hypocritical to tell a kid they can't hit their sibling or another kid if you yourself are hitting. My kid doesn't hit anyone, we don't hit him.

It wouldn't occur to me to hit my dd. She's almost two, and believe me I have felt frustrated more than once, but I think it's the wrong way to teach.

Amy

[TXmom]

Well I really believe the person who started this thread agrees with you, she just said it in a different way. I could be wrong.

[Sasha Rowan]

Try www.family.org (http://www.family.org) for Focus on the Family.

[SSWeaser]

I found all your comments very interesting. All I can say, is until you have walked in my shoes and have dealt with my children - 2 step kids that have a serious biowitch mom who tells them they do not have to mind me and can do whatever they like in my home - 2 kids who's biofather says essentially the same thing and well the baby doesn't count - please do not judge me for spanking my kids. I do not spank out of anger or to get a quick fix. We resorted to it when nothing and I do mean NOTHING else was getting through to them. It worked until the BioW...Tch called the police on us and told the kids she would report us to the authorities any time they were spanked. It's really nice to have a 5 year old stand, hands on hips, and inform you that she will "do as she pleases because mommy says you can't touch me or she'll put you in jail". Nice mom, nice kid. We tried the 1,2,3 method also. The kid laughed at us. The older brother wants to seriously harm his sister and also does whatever he pleases including destroying my property on purpose. My two are passive/aggressive. I challenge any of you who think you can begin to suggest I am wrong for trying to find workable discipline tools for this group of kids to spend a week with them from my perspective.

Signed,

Custodial step-mom, custodial mom & mom to 5 kids (4 of whom) refuse to do anything that is asked of them, are rude and disrespectful, destroy property, etc.

:{

[RCT]

SSWeaser ....I checked out this site and will be looking in the Library for her book.....but are you saying that it has helped your family situation?
This first post sounded possitive about this book, but your last post confussed me

?( which isn't too hard :lol:.....my kids are at the testing stage 6-4....it sounds to me like you have it hard with the bio mother/fathers giving such awful parenting help.....how has this book helped you...

[Diane]

It's got to be pretty hard trying to make a home with these children when you can't feel free to dicipline them the way you feel like you need to, without all of these interfearances... I guess though that you've got to respect the wishes of the parent, simply because they ARE the children's parents. Not everybody believes in spanking... it's definitely not for everyone. I'm NOT wanting to start a thread/debate about spanking... but I raised my children with a spank here and there when they needed it but there is no way I could put up with a child looking at me and telling me they can do whatever they want because... ??? I guess I feel that if they aren't fitting well into your home/rules perhaps they should be placed somewhere where they do fit in. ???

Diane... :wave:

[Amy2]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by SSWeaser
[B]I found all your comments very interesting. All I can say, is until you have walked in my shoes and have dealt with my children - 2 step kids that have a serious biowitch mom who tells them they do not have to mind me and can do whatever they like in my home - 2 kids who's biofather says essentially the same thing and well the baby doesn't count - please do not judge me for spanking my kids. I do not spank out of anger or to get a quick fix. We resorted to it when nothing and I do mean NOTHING else was getting through to them. It worked until the BioW...Tch called the police on us and told the kids she would report us to the authorities any time they were spanked. It's really nice to have a 5 year old stand, hands on hips, and inform you that she will "do as she pleases because mommy says you can't touch me or she'll put you in jail". Nice mom, nice kid. We tried the 1,2,3 method also. The kid laughed at us. The older brother wants to seriously harm his sister and also does whatever he pleases including destroying my property on purpose. My two are passive/aggressive. I challenge any of you who think you can begin to suggest I am wrong for trying to find workable discipline tools for this group of kids to spend a week with them from my perspective.

You sound frustrated, angry, agressive, and terribly defensive to me. I'm sorry that your life is hard, but it sounds to me like you're setting yourself up for failure. They are CHALLENGING you to hit them, it's their game! And clearly, it is NOT working when you do. I hope you find some answers for your family, but again, I would be loathe to take parenting advice from someone with as much hostility as you seem to have.

Amy

[PamE]

LOL, Amy! That's just what she said, that spanking wasn't working and that she had found an alternative! It's not her advice she's offering it's someone else's for you to take or leave!

[Amy]

Amy- you know the old adage "if you can't say something nice or even decent, keep your lips shut." Can you possibly be anymore offensive to someone who is obviously dealing with some hard times? Im all for being honest, but you could arrange your tone to be a little more palatiable? Sheesh

[SSWeaser]

Thank you Pam and Amy/Co! I appreciate your comments.


Nothing in my upbringing prepared me to parent 5 kids. Nothing prepared me to parent stepkids that do not respect me even a little and that have been PAS'd to death. All I want to have is a semi-normal family with kids that have normal problems. I have been open to anything that might work with each of their differing temperments and my limited ability to be in five places at once to train them to see how their behaviour is wrong.

I am in no way offering parenting advice to anyone. Simply, that I had run across something that was a big help to me that I thought others might want to review and that, for once, would also work in blended family situations. For me it was a lifeline when I had exhausted everything else I knew to do.

[AnnW]

Originally posted by SSWeaser
Thank you Pam and Amy/Co! I appreciate your comments.


Nothing in my upbringing prepared me to parent 5 kids. Nothing prepared me to parent stepkids that do not respect me even a little and that have been PAS'd to death. All I want to have is a semi-normal family with kids that have normal problems. I have been open to anything that might work with each of their differing temperments and my limited ability to be in five places at once to train them to see how their behaviour is wrong.

I am in no way offering parenting advice to anyone. Simply, that I had run across something that was a big help to me that I thought others might want to review and that, for once, would also work in blended family situations. For me it was a lifeline when I had exhausted everything else I knew to do.

Good luck to you! There aren't many on this board who are qualified to talk about raising 5 children much less step kids with an attitude. I think we are ALL trying to find what is best for our own families, and hopefully are not so arrogant to think that only one method works. Take care.

[KarlaB]

Originally posted by AnnW


Good luck to you! There aren't many on this board who are qualified to talk about raising 5 children much less step kids with an attitude. I think we are ALL trying to find what is best for our own families, and hopefully are not so arrogant to think that only one method works. Take care.

Ditto!! (I couldn't have said it better myself, Ann! :D ) Good for you for looking for other options and trying to be the best parent you can be ~ Best of luck to you!!

[Diane]

Originally posted by SSWeaser
Thank you Pam and Amy/Co! I appreciate your comments.


Nothing in my upbringing prepared me to parent 5 kids. Nothing prepared me to parent stepkids that do not respect me even a little and that have been PAS'd to death. All I want to have is a semi-normal family with kids that have normal problems. I have been open to anything that might work with each of their differing temperments and my limited ability to be in five places at once to train them to see how their behaviour is wrong.

I am in no way offering parenting advice to anyone. Simply, that I had run across something that was a big help to me that I thought others might want to review and that, for once, would also work in blended family situations. For me it was a lifeline when I had exhausted everything else I knew to do.

I'm so sorry... for some reason I was under the impression that these were "foster" children, not "step" children. Either way... I think I too would have a very difficult time trying to deal with a situation such as this. Seeing you're the "step" mother... your dh should be backing YOU up and supporting you to his children's bio mother... I would think that seeing your the other adult in the family that YOU should have just as many rights to dicipline the children as he/she does, I might be wrong in assuming this but... it only makes sense to me. You DESERVE to be treated with respect and you should be getting it. To me it seems as if your dh needs to sit down and have a good long talk with his ex wife and children. Good luck with however you plan on dealing with this situation. I admire you for looking for and finding new/different way's of dealing with this very difficult situation.

Diane... :wave:

[Linda/NE]

(((HUGS)))
I have plenty of struggles with my 5 kids and they're all mine! It sounds like you are stuck between a rock and hard place. I agree with who ever posted that the father needs to sit down with his ex and the kids and get a workable solution.

A family only works if the parents (adults in the household) work as a team. If one is undermining the others' authority there will be nothing but problems. It sounds too as if the bio mom feels threatened by your presence in the children's life. If she can make you look like the 'bad guy' she doesn't have to worry about her kids liking/loving you more. It's unfortunate that the adults have to use the children as pawns to get back at each other. Maybe dh and the ex need to hash out their problems--(sounds to me like a 'lover scorned' type of situation more than anything else )

While spanking is a last resort for me, I have seen that it can work. Obviously if kids are spanked for everything they eventually don't see it as the 'ultimate' punishment. If spanking is only used in extreme situations the kids know you mean business.

Like someone else said spanking works for some kids and not others, just as time out works for some and not others.

Unfortunately NO form of discipline will work if you don't have support of other adults in the children's lives.

Seek out the advice of a minister, counselor or someone that could help you put this into perspective. Maybe you and your dh need counseling to effectively deal with all of this.

Best of luck to you!!:snickers: :snickers: :snickers:

[Mickey]

Going to give my two cents, too.

SSWeaver, I've probably read every self-help discipline book out there--The Discipline Book, Magic 1-2-3, Discipline Without Shouting or Spanking, How to Talk So Kids Will Listen & Listen So Kids Will Talk, Raising Your Spirited Child, The S.T.E.P. Parenting Handbook, etc. And I agree that different things work for different kids, but I also feel that spanking isn't a good idea for anyone--not for me, not for my child, and not for the families of spankers I know. This is JMHO.

That said, I'm so glad you're seeking alternatives to spanking, even though the reason you've sought alternatives was simply because the bio mom objected to the spanking. I truly can't imagine how difficult it must be to try to raise someone else's kids, but at the same time, if the bio mom is not a spanker, she has the right to object to someone else (yes, even the stepmother) spanking her kids.

Sounds like there is a lot of anger and history among the adults involved--the bio mom telling her kids to stand up to you isn't good and I'd be willing to bet that the kids can sense the anger and frustration you're feeling and I'm sure that doesn't help matters either. Disciplining a child you don't like must be very difficult for both you and the child.

This doesn't sound like a situation that can be resolved by reading a discipline book. This isn't just about "methods"--there is a lot more to this situation and I hope you, your husband and his ex can all sit down and resolve this.

[arianna]

MM! It sounds to me that this entire family needs more than just a book or two to resolve the obvious conflicts. Therapy sounds more like it. And I am typing this with sincerity. ßß!

[AnnW]

Originally posted by SSWeaser
For those of you who have difficult children, or who have just run out of ideas, I would highly recommend this book by Lisa Welchel. It is available both on her website (same name) and on Focus on the Family's website www.focus.org

I have 5 kids all with different temperments. Spanking no longer worked on them and we needed new ideas. This book is great!! We no longer have the power struggle battles that end with a more angry kid.



Since the point of her original post seems to have gotten lost, I thought I would post it again.
All this poster did was post about a great book that she had read.

[RCT]

I love what Mickey said....and sometimes Parenting isn't what we signed up for is it....I symphathize with your situation and agree that the other parents involved should be working with you rather than agaisnt you....hang in there...and thank you for the book recommendation....sorry this post turned ugly on us....8)

[Diane]

Originally posted by AnnW




Since the point of her original post seems to have gotten lost, I thought I would post it again.
All this poster did was post about a great book that she had read.

Ann is right... Thank you for the book recommendation... :)

Diane... :wave:

[netmechwife]

Thank you for the book recommendation. I loved the site so far too. I am praying for you. It must be very difficult for you. Hope things improve quickly! (((((((HUGS)))))))) I appreciate it when other moms give recommendations!

[SSWeaser]

Hopefully this will be my final post on this subject. #1 I don't spank my step-kids that is their father's job and only if they are so far out of line nothing we've attempted has fazed them.

#2 They have been in counseling for 2 years now. We have tried to get BM to come - she refuses. She claims the counselor is manipulating things. Of course, when she called CPS - the counselor was the next person on the list to notify. Until then she refused any contact with him.

#3 Now son won't talk to counselor we have to find another one for him.

For those of you who believe we just wack our kids because we are out of options and control, let me tell you about a typical week with our 11 year old son. Bear in mind, this is only one of the things he was pulling during this particular time frame.

Son is caught on fence taunting neighbors vicious dog. He is told to get down by his dad. 1/2hr later he's doing it again. Dad sends him into the house for the remainder of the day. 2 days later son is at it again. Dad sends him to his room to sit on the bed for remainder of day. 2 days later he's at it again. Gets sent to room for weekend - no play, no tv, no friends. Monday- you guessed it- he's back doing it again and now has my 8 yr old helping him. Hubby calls him in the house explains for the 5th time why he should not be doing what he is doing, and gives him several swats through his undies. Dad sends him to his room and meets him there a short while later to read scripture with him about the importance of obedience.

Since there are so many people here that have ideas of how to handle difficult kids without resorting to spanking someone please tell me what we were supposed to do differently?

[SSWeaser]

Finally, There is no such thing as talking to BM. First of all you can't get a word in edgewise. She and her boyfriend spank the kids, but she doesn't want us to. She also has my son light his toys on fire to destroy them as a form of discipline and cuts up my daughter's toys and pet clothes.

She says her house is her business and our house is her business. In her words, the kids are "none of my business" even though I am raising them. They are not even allowed to call me mom (I personally don't care it's not an issue with me) and tells them they will get in trouble if they do because she is their mom and it is disrespectful for them to refer to me that way.

She gave up her kids and got mad when my hubby remarried. Now she wants them back and is very verbal about the amount of child support and alimony she wants from him.

It's a classic hostile divorce situation and the only ones who lose are the kids. I love my SK's. I want them to grow up to be happy, well adjusted adults. I can see their potential. Both are very smart and talented. Sometimes, though, I'm at a loss as to how to bring out the positive in them when they are determined to play the victim/martyr with us or spend days on end being angry and hateful to everyone around them.

[Diane]

Originally posted by SSWeaser
Finally, There is no such thing as talking to BM. First of all you can't get a word in edgewise. She and her boyfriend spank the kids, but she doesn't want us to. She also has my son light his toys on fire to destroy them as a form of discipline and cuts up my daughter's toys and pet clothes.

She says her house is her business and our house is her business. In her words, the kids are "none of my business" even though I am raising them. They are not even allowed to call me mom (I personally don't care it's not an issue with me) and tells them they will get in trouble if they do because she is their mom and it is disrespectful for them to refer to me that way.

She gave up her kids and got mad when my hubby remarried. Now she wants them back and is very verbal about the amount of child support and alimony she wants from him.

It's a classic hostile divorce situation and the only ones who lose are the kids. I love my SK's. I want them to grow up to be happy, well adjusted adults. I can see their potential. Both are very smart and talented. Sometimes, though, I'm at a loss as to how to bring out the positive in them when they are determined to play the victim/martyr with us or spend days on end being angry and hateful to everyone around them.

I'd hate to see this happen but... sometimes kids need to learn on their own... the hard way. Perhap's after the dog has bitten him... he'll have learned that maybe he should have listened... and left the dog alone.

Diane... :wave:

[Mickey]

Originally posted by SSWeaser
Finally, There is no such thing as talking to BM. First of all you can't get a word in edgewise. She and her boyfriend spank the kids, but she doesn't want us to. She also has my son light his toys on fire to destroy them as a form of discipline and cuts up my daughter's toys and pet clothes.

She says her house is her business and our house is her business. In her words, the kids are "none of my business" even though I am raising them. They are not even allowed to call me mom (I personally don't care it's not an issue with me) and tells them they will get in trouble if they do because she is their mom and it is disrespectful for them to refer to me that way.

She gave up her kids and got mad when my hubby remarried. Now she wants them back and is very verbal about the amount of child support and alimony she wants from him.

It's a classic hostile divorce situation and the only ones who lose are the kids. I love my SK's. I want them to grow up to be happy, well adjusted adults. I can see their potential. Both are very smart and talented. Sometimes, though, I'm at a loss as to how to bring out the positive in them when they are determined to play the victim/martyr with us or spend days on end being angry and hateful to everyone around them.


Like I (and others) have said, it doesn't sound like a situation a discipline method in a book can fix.

Good luck to you and your family.

[SAM]

Another great series about discipline is the Love and Logic books by Jim Fay.