Smart alec ds

[AnnW]

Ever since we let our ds (11) start in the gift/talented program, he has become a little smart a@@! He goes to the g/t campus on Fridays, and he is now the most unbearable, smart alec, condescending child on Friday afternoons!
In addition, he has for the past year or so really been mean to his sister, but now he seems to go out of his way to be intentionally mean to her. I asked him why and he said "well, she's just so annoying and she's not very smart". grrrr
We have threatened to pull him out of the program, and I have emailed his teacher (both g/t and regular) for advice. He knows I have emailed them..I let him read the email.
I was putting him in time out and he basically said "how is punishing me going to make me want to treat my sister better?" ok..valid point but still..........grrrrrrrrrr
I really am at my wits end, and I know this post probably doesn't make much sense....

[Leigh]

I realize that you must be at your wits end. I don't know what to tell you. Have you tried praising positve behavior. Maybe you could set up a reward system like the one that Renee mentioned in the other thread here. Maybe for no flowers (or whatever you decide to use) pulled out for a month you can spend a day doing something that he would enjoy. Of course then you may have Amy's problem of you dd feeling left out. I am rambling now, and I don't know if any of this will help. Hope it gets better. Let us know how things are going.

[KarlaB]

I feel for you and I dread those days in my future. :( Do you think some of it is age related? I'll admit I am pretty clueless since my kids haven't hit that age. I know my nephew who is 12 when through a phase like that and still tends to have "smart" comments for stuff. Hopefully his teachers can help you out. I don't really have any answers. Does he get an allowance? Could you deduct a certain amount each time he does this? Or go along the reward thing like Leugh mentioned? Sorry I am not much help! Hope someone here can give you more ideas. Good Luck! :)

You might mention to him that it doesn't matter if he "wants to treat his sister better". It's not a choice. Treating people with respect and behaving pleasantly to family members is expected behavior. Little siblings can certainly be annoying (as can older brothers!) but it's nice to have them on your side. The other thing about being condescending is that he may need a reminder that while intelligence is a wonderful gift (which he was given without having to earn it), the smartest people aren't always the happiest people because they sometimes don't spend enough time learning how to get along with others. His involvement in Boy Scouts must reinforce some of the same "team" attitudes that you are trying to teach him.

Those thoughts aside, when you come up with a cure for sibling bickering and nastiness, I'll buy a lifetime supply. No price limit, ok? I think that noone is ever as mean to you as your siblings, but noone understands or supports you more. It's amazing.

[Amy2]

My best friend's son (my "Godson" as we call him ;)) is 13 and went through an awful stage where he was TORMENTING his little brother. She did this thing, where she said "If I hear him so much as wimper, you're in trouble." It was completely unfair for about a week. And little brother was using it for all it was worth. Big brother would say "But he..." she didn't care. He got the point, he was NOT allowed to be unkind to his brother. If he did, he'd lose a dollar, or a privledge or something like that. Eventually she eased up, started dealing with little brother too. (Though he had seen what she meant when she said the behavior was unacceptable, and so he didn't go there.) It made a huge impact in a relatively short amount of time. (I should send her here to talk about it, because she could articulate all the dynamics much better than I)
Another thing I was thinking was finding some information on someone really smart and AWFUL. Like showing him how "smart" Hitler was...so what? Did he use his smarts for anything good? then find a parallel "smart" person (Ghandi?) and ask him, which "smart" he wants to be? Smart-smart, or smart a**? Well, you probably wouldn't want to say that, but you know...

[darlene]

Originally posted by Cathy
You might mention to him that it doesn't matter if he "wants to treat his sister better". It's not a choice. Treating people with respect and behaving pleasantly to family members is expected behavior. Little siblings can certainly be annoying (as can older brothers!) but it's nice to have them on your side. The other thing about being condescending is that he may need a reminder that while intelligence is a wonderful gift (which he was given without having to earn it), the smartest people aren't always the happiest people because they sometimes don't spend enough time learning how to get along with others.
I like your reasoning Cathy! I remember hating my older brother when we were teenagers, now our families spend lots of time together.
:)

[darlene]

Originally posted by AnnW
and he is now the most unbearable, smart alec, condescending child on Friday afternoons!
I was putting him in time out and he basically said "how is punishing me going to make me want to treat my sister better?" ok..valid point but still..........grrrrrrrrrr
I really am at my wits end, and I know this post probably doesn't make much sense....
Oh, it makes sense all right. However in our case it is our 10yr old dd! I think she is turing into a teenager ahead of her time! LOL
She is especially rude to the family after she has had a friend over or has been at a friend's house for a visit. It takes some time to get her back on track and treating us all nicely again.
I hope you get it worked out with ds.
:)

[Diane]

I LOVE Cathy's answer... it doesn't matter if he "wants to treat his sister better". It's not a choice. Treating people with respect and behaving pleasantly to family members is expected behavior. I couldn't have said it better! :)

Just would like to add that I also think it's got a lot to do with his age. When one of my day care kids turned this age (just the DAY after his birthday) he became unbearable! He thought he was just too smart or good (and too old) for anybody. He no longer wanted anything to do with his little brother/sister (who he use to be very close to) nor did he want to attend day care any more. The teacher even started complaining about him, which was not the norm. Before this he was a great kid but for some reason just got a big head. I think it's a phase they all go through and eventually they DO get over it but, it isn't always easy to live with. No great answers, but I do agree with Cathy's reply... :)

[Amy]

Hey Ann,

Have no real advice, but I remember I couldn't stand my brothers growing up because they were so mean to me. As long as I wanted nothing to do with them, than I was safe from their wrath. LOL

In order for him to sit and listen, I would threaten to take away something he cherishes. Maybe say "since you are giving me and dd so much grief over your bad attitude, I don't feel like rewarding you with baseball season this year". Tell him your not asking him to be an angel, but civility is a must or else.

Also, know its the age and its lasts usually until college! LOL

[AnnW]

I don't want to deal with puberty!!!! LOL
I told him this am that while the punishment per se may not make him want to be nice to his sister, hopefully I could make the punishment so bad that it would make his think twice about being mean.
We have him on a real short leash tolerance wise right now, I took away some of his rocks from his collection last night.
Thanks for the encouragement.

[Amy2]

Ann, my mother, who taught middle school for thirty years used to say that once kids hit puberty we should just throw them all in a pit and let the writhe! Cracked me up.

[Mickey]

Sorry for your troubles with ds, Ann. Not sure what to suggest except that if he loves the program, that may be a way to curb his attitude...maybe take him out of it for a couple of weeks--until he can lose the attitude and can treat his sister better?

[TXmom]

Oh please, have I been there! Just this weekend I told ds (9) that I would not tolerate him being mean to the 3 year old. All Trey wanted was for his brother to open his Lego box for him, and ds just ignored him.

[RCT]

no words of wisedom for you but I do empathize with you....and as a child like your dd...I was tormented cruely by my older brother, who now at 38 calls me every weekend cuz he misses me....LOL...hope things get better.....

[AnnW]

Originally posted by TXmom
Oh please, have I been there! Just this weekend I told ds (9) that I would not tolerate him being mean to the 3 year old. All Trey wanted was for his brother to open his Lego box for him, and ds just ignored him.

at least he ignored him..my ds would say something like "you stupid baby you are so dumb you can't even open a box"....charming child isn't he???
so what did you do????????

[AnnW]

Originally posted by RCT
no words of wisedom for you but I do empathize with you....and as a child like your dd...I was tormented cruely by my older brother, who now at 38 calls me every weekend cuz he misses me....LOL...hope things get better.....

He may not LIVE to 38!!!!!!!!!!

part of the problem is that she absolutely hero worships him and to be honest her adoration is kind of annoying...she is so desparate to have him pay attention to her that she really does get in his face alot, so we find ourselves yelling at her "just don't go near your brother"....these kids are gonna have a great book to write when they grow up!!!!! LOL

[MK]

Not sure if this will work or not, but it seems to make sense, and from the sounds of it, you have nothing to lose but your sanity and your daughter's self-esteem.

Have a private meeting with dd and find out if there is any reason at all that she might look up to her big bro. Ask her if there is anything in particular that he is especially good at that she would like to learn from him. Then set the trap. Get ds to "teach" his special talent to dd. It will increase his own self-esteem (not that he needs it right now), raise an awareness in him of his sister's own special gifts, raise your dd's self-esteem, and bring them closer together. And, if teaching his sister and having patience is a challenge to him, he might be humbled just a little (one could hope, lol). View it as an experiment, and keep us updated.

[AnnW]

Originally posted by MK
Not sure if this will work or not, but it seems to make sense, and from the sounds of it, you have nothing to lose but your sanity and your daughter's self-esteem.

Have a private meeting with dd and find out if there is any reason at all that she might look up to her big bro. Ask her if there is anything in particular that he is especially good at that she would like to learn from him. Then set the trap. Get ds to "teach" his special talent to dd. It will increase his own self-esteem (not that he needs it right now), raise an awareness in him of his sister's own special gifts, raise your dd's self-esteem, and bring them closer together. And, if teaching his sister and having patience is a challenge to him, he might be humbled just a little (one could hope, lol). View it as an experiment, and keep us updated.

Thanks MK..we have done that, it excited ds at first but then when she didn't "catch on" it just annoyed him even more!

[TXmom]

so what did you do???????? [/B][/QUOTE]

I said "I will not tolerate you being mean to this child!" LOL! Intimidating, aren't I?

[TXmom]

Ann - My post above is in reply to your reply to my reply ROFL!

[AnnW]

Originally posted by TXmom
Ann - My post above is in reply to your reply to my reply ROFL!

ROFL...I was wondering! LOL
gosh, Donna, you mean all I have to do is tell him and he will stop???? LOL

[macw4]

I guess I'm from the old school.......spare the rod and spoil the child......my son tried to go through a small stage of pre adolescent behaviors.....at age 13....a quick board and that behavior disappeared.....he and his sister are in the same grade....both g/t.....and are best friends....some times we forget we are the responsible party for their behavior

[AnnW]

Originally posted by macw4
I guess I'm from the old school.......spare the rod and spoil the child......my son tried to go through a small stage of pre adolescent behaviors.....at age 13....a quick board and that behavior disappeared.....he and his sister are in the same grade....both g/t.....and are best friends....some times we forget we are the responsible party for their behavior

I am glad that it worked for you, but I am not a big fan of "the board". I am not sure if you mean by being responsible for his behaviour, I am causing it?

[Diane]

My goodness... I hope not... I can't believe that anybody would even suggest doing that! I'm a firm believer in dicipline but certainly not one involving "the board". Ugh!! Sorry for butting in but wow, in this case I just couldn't help it. LOL

[AnnW]

Originally posted by Diane P.
My goodness... I hope not... I can't believe that anybody would even suggest doing that! I'm a firm believer in dicipline but certainly not one involving "the board". Ugh!! Sorry for butting in but wow, in this case I just couldn't help it. LOL

Thanks Diane, as a veteran of the trenches, I respect your opinion!

[KarlaB]

Originally posted by AnnW

Originally posted by Diane P.
My goodness... I hope not... I can't believe that anybody would even suggest doing that! I'm a firm believer in dicipline but certainly not one involving "the board". Ugh!! Sorry for butting in but wow, in this case I just couldn't help it. LOL

Thanks Diane, as a veteran of the trenches, I respect your opinion!

WOW! I am with you and Diane on this one all the way!! And, don't blame yourself Ann - I think your ds is going through a stage that MANY go through. And, it's not like you haven't recognized that it's unacceptable to you and like you haven't been trying to find some positive ways to deal with it. Hang in there! :)

[Mickey]

Originally posted by macw4
I guess I'm from the old school.......spare the rod and spoil the child......

Did you know that the "rod" referred to in the Bible is the rod that the shepherd uses to GUIDE his sheep and beat off predators? He doesn't beat his sheep with it. (I think it was Jeannie/OR who had some other interesting things to say regarding this common Bible reference during a debate a long time ago. Jeannie? Was that you?)

Ann, you're on the right track...even if it doesn't feel like it. Hang in there, babe!

[angie r]

Ugh! This is so much my older brother and I growing up. We fought constantly, he was always "making fun" of me, hitting me, locking me out of the house. All I wanted was for him to love me. I remember him leaving for college and I cried and cried. I would bake things for him for the weekend so he could take them back to school. We are 2 1/2 years apart. Not until he had children was he pleasant to me. Then he found what a benefit I was!!! I was talking with my mother a couple weeks ago and she told me that db was braggin on what a great person I am. How great I am with the kids and soooo smart. I sure could have used that through my adolescence!! We have a great relationship now.

I am struggling to think of something that may have brought this on sooner. Some advice for you. I don't know? I think I agree with the "teaching," but I think it would have turned out the same for us too. I still feel low self esteem from those years of, "you are fat, ugly and stupid." I even slept with some of his friends trying to show I was somehow lovable. Wow, I think this has really hit something deep in me I haven't talked about in a long time.

Anyway, I definately wouldn't ignore this. Maybe even counseling is in order for them. Or maybe this is something that will pass?? Great advice I have, huh?

[AnnW]

Oh, Angie..your post has broken my heart!!! I know I won't permit this behavoir to continue.
Thanks Mick and Karla..this is tearing me up enough without getting blamed for it too.

[Amy]

I know exactly where you are coming from. My oldest brother and I never clicked. He is still an adolescent who is 39 years old. I think he is hysterical now, but we still give each other cheap shots. LOL My other brother, who is 3 years older, I worshipped. Well the two brothers combined were horrible. They use to call me ugly, fat and whatever else they could come up with that they thought was funny at the time. I think that is why I was always looking for (in the wrong places and the wrong type of men) love and acceptance to prove them wrong. I also never attributed my behavior to their adolescent behavior until now too.

I use to hate when my Mom use to have my oldest brother babysit for the night because I knew that would always lead to trouble. My parent wouldn't be gone for more than ten minutes before the two boys started wrestling until there was a fight. Many a times, one of them would lock themselves into a room to get away from the wrath of the other one and a lot of screaming and door kicking would ensue. I was a sensitive child and this would just freak me out. My parents knew what went on, but I don't think they knew the damage it can do in the long run.

As of now, I like my brothers and when we get together we have a BLAST, but I wouldn't consider us close. We never call each other or keep in touch on a consistent basis.

All my friends, when having their first baby, always say they want a boy first so it can be the second baby's protector. I think that is a crock because there was no protection with me until college (we went to the same college). They would have fed me to the wolves if they could. LOL When my ds gets on my dd's nerves, I let her know early on that he just wants to be close to her because he looks up to her. This makes her feel more important and loved. And thank goodness for her maternal instincts! She is more tolerant and forgiving.

Ann-Don't know how to stop your ds's behavior, but if it continues for years, it can be implanted in dd's brain for the rest of her life.

[AnnW]

Amy/Co...great, now I am scarring her for life too!!! This is just making me sick!

[Edited by AnnW on 03-06-2001 at 12:43 PM]

[AnnW]

His g/t teacher emailed this am (she was out yesterday), ds and I are meeting with her Friday.

[angie r]

I am so proud of you for nipping this in the bud!! I hope you can get some results. Pass on what you learn, it seems like this behavior happens in just about every family.

Another thing I wanted to mention was that it seems like every time my brother "got in trouble" for treating me badly that the next time we were alone together I really got his wrath. I can't count how many times I packed my clothes in a trash bag and sat beside the house debating on where to go. Finally waiting until my parents got home. Anyway, be careful that he doesn't feel he is in trouble because of her....it is because of his behavior. ???

LOL I just remembered a time when he walked in the room, I started screaming crying and my dad came running in and grabbed him, took him to his room, and spanked him. He didn't do a thing. I thought "haha revenge is mine!!!" I ended up behind a chair crying because I felt so guilty.

Well, here I go on and on and on...........blah blah blah