Am I overprotective? [Archive]

RCT

03-09-2001, 02:07 PM

I was just talking with dh about stuff, and we came to the conclusion that maybe we are both too over protective with our kids, which is funny, because we don't think it's a bad thing, but maybe we are wrong......LOL...he was telling me how our neice had placed her three year old on the kitchen counter to sit and then walked away, he said he was horrified, and that he totally freaked out and grabbed our great neice and placed her on the floor...LOL....I would never do that...my goodness....what if they fell...He said our niece totally laughed at him, "oh Uncle, your so paranoid"...and left it at that.....also the other day when our neighbor had come over with her two children, they had stuck their faces right down to Max (our puppies) face, he is so bity and snappy still, that I am all over our kids NOT to put thier faces in his, let alone a strange dogs face? Is it us? Are you all risk takers with your kids? I think I might be paranoid...LOL, maybe it's cabin fever....LOL

[Edited by RCT on 03-09-2001 at 01:11 PM]

Diane

03-09-2001, 03:24 PM

I am SO bad when it comes to being over protective! I always figured that it's better to be safe than sorry. When I see what some parents allow their kids to do I just cringe... I've watched as kids stand in the seat of their grocery cart... while I'm ready to rush and grab them and sit them back down to safety, their parents don't seem to give a darn. Kids that are not belted in car seats... climbing up on cupboards and highchairs. Those who let their little ones go outside by themselves to play in an unfensed yard... I won't allow ANY kids in my kitchen while I'm cooking but yet I have friends who's kids are running back and forth through the kitchen while their mom is making a meal. I'm happy to say that I'm not as bad as my sister though. One day when I called her she was busy duct taping foam to the culvert at the bottom of their driveway... she was "cushioning" it just in case her ds's tricycle went out of control and he hit it. She was also always yelling at him for running... NEVER let him run. LOL I shouldn't criticize but it made me feel much better about my overprotectiveness. LOL Don't feel bad, you're definitely not the only one. More people SHOULD be. :)

[Edited by Diane P. on 03-09-2001 at 02:27 PM]

03-09-2001, 05:21 PM

I am fairly protective, I don't hover, but I'm not negligent either. Especially as they grow and get older/stronger I learn (sometimes the hard way)to let go just a little more. Car and Shopping Cart Safety are a must. I am appaled at people who aren't so careful.
When I lived on a busier street without a yard, and when my kids were younger they didn't go outside without me, but now they can.
I consider it only common sense that parents would admonish their children to exercise caution around even the gentlest of pets.
My seven year old is allowed to climb up on the counter or stand on a sturdy chair to get the cereal down from the cupboard, but the five year old is not. I don't let them play in a chair that has wheels.
But once when my step-mom and I went shopping (dh and dad were home)my 5 yo fell off the swing and gashed his head, requiring stitches. He is fine, but am I going to prohibit him from playing on the swing from now on? NO!
We do the best we can, to protect our kids, but sometimes we have to let them live too. Think about the parents who never let their kids go outside or play with other kids because they are afraid they might catch a cold-- at the expense of their social well-being. And then think of the parents who let their kids ride their bikes in the middle of the street without a helmet. Both are extemes. I think if we can manage to stay somewhere in the middle we'll do okay.

Mickey

03-09-2001, 06:20 PM

I am VERY protective in respect to who I leave ds with--no one is ever good enough. And he's a wonderer, so when his school plans a field trip, I will always go because I'm afraid they'll lose him! Heck, I lost him once myself!

But, I'm not a "be careful, you're going to fall and break your neck!" kind of mom. Ds is very coordinated and he's been climbing (he climbed over our 6-foot fence when he was 2 1/2!) and kind of a dare devil all his life and I don't stress over it. However, he ALWAYS wears protective gear (helmet and all pads) when riding his bike or power wheels quad or scooter.

p.s. I would never let ds put his face in a strange animal's face. That's just crazy! No animal can be completely trusted, imho.

darlene

03-09-2001, 06:33 PM

Hi Renee and all. I'm with you in being protective - I think alot of it is good common sense! LOL
I am finding the hardest is with dd, who is 10 1/2. She is obviously feeling the peer pressure at her age and is constantly asking why she can't do things that some of the other kids in her class do. For example, she wanted to watch The Scary Movie with her friend last weekend, and believe it or not I decided to rent it for them. What a mistake.....we only watched approx 5 min into it and then dh and I said NO MORE! I know she is growing up, but I just don't want it to be too fast. I was telling dh about what I was allowed to do when I was her age, not so much do, but was required to do (as my dad had left our family by then) and I could hardly believe the difference!
I am cautious with our other kids too...maybe more than I should be, but I'd like to believe "better safe than sorry".
:)

KarlaB

03-09-2001, 07:11 PM

I am very protective of our dks, too. Made me feel better to hear about Diane's sister cushioning a culvert - I am protective, but I am not that extreme! LOL! When ds was first learning to walk when he would approach steps my bil would get on our case for running to him so he wouldn't fall down them. Bil would say we should let him fall down them so he learns not to go near them. I think it is one thing to protect our kids and another to watch them get hurt to teach them a lesson.

kat

03-09-2001, 10:48 PM

Better over protective than under protective. I'm being faced with an extremely difficult situation right now (one that seems to be getting worse by the minute).

My brother and his wife of 20 years divorced a couple of months ago. My brother dated some pretty "scabbie" girls in his life, but Jo was great. I always said I couldn't believe he'd found such a sweet girl who turned into a great mom. Well all that has changed since the divorce. I expected things might be awkward - but I never expected what is happening now.

Brother's kids are: girls 19 and 18, and one boy 13 who is joined at the hip with my 12 year old son. Every weekend he was here, or mine was there. I still let him come over here anytime he wants, but refuse to let ds go over there any more. My 19 year old niece has girlfriend 23 who is living with them (and I am talking "girlfriend"), when my 18 year old niece turned 18 last month, SIL allowed her boyfriend to "sleep over". Tonight I learn that he is living there and that my SIL also has her new boyfriend living there. DS wonders why he can't spend the night there any more. Where do I begin???

My oldest is 20 and recently moved out. (Actually he and my brother share an apartment) I wouldn't even allow him to smoke in my house, much less have sex in it.

My SIL says that they are over 18, they can do what they want. I say not in my house they don't. What is that teaching my nephew.

Am I a prude? Call it what you will, I call it WRONG

Diane

03-09-2001, 11:16 PM

Originally posted by kat

My oldest is 20 and recently moved out. (Actually he and my brother share an apartment) I wouldn't even allow him to smoke in my house, much less have sex in it.

My SIL says that they are over 18, they can do what they want. I say not in my house they don't. What is that teaching my nephew.

Am I a prude? Call it what you will, I call it WRONG [/B]

I don't think you're being a "prude" at all... I couldn't agree with you more. IMHO it IS wrong, although some may disagree with me. LOL Just because their l8 doesn't mean that they can suddenly go out and do any/everything they feel like doing. As long as our children choose to continue to live under OUR roof... they still have to pretty much follow our rules. If they don't like those rules... their more than welcome to move out. Not that I necessarily want them out, but if their doing all kinds of things that I don't approve of, then perhaps it's time. You're doing the right thing... :)

[Edited by Diane P. on 03-10-2001 at 09:44 AM]

KarlaB

03-10-2001, 12:20 AM

No, you are not a prude and I agree with following the rules of one's parents while living at home. Eighteen isn't a magic age when we no longer need good examples and rules to follow. We may have thought we knew it all at 18, but I think of how much I have changed and grown since then. Maybe your sil is all of a sudden being lenient with her kids to get them on her "side" and to try to justify her behavior of having her boyfriend move in??? Don't doubt yourself and your beliefs. You're right not to expose your ds to that situation overnight which may lead him to believe it's acceptable.

AnnW

03-10-2001, 09:22 AM

I think there are rules of the house that are the rules of the house no matter what age. I can remember when I was 22, my parents had a couple stay with them at our bay house who were my parents age but not married and my mother wouldn't let them sleep in the same room because I was going to be there!!!! LOL
I would tell your 12 year old, that you don't agree with people living together not married and while you love sil, neice ect, you don't approve of the choices they are making right now and don't want you in their house..they are still welcome in yours.
Good luck and stand firm in your beliefs!

Linda/NE

03-10-2001, 11:27 AM

I am more protective than my dh, but I've learned (after 5 kids) to roll with the punches a little more. The first ones I was more protective of, but gradually I got to where I felt comfortable letting them spread their wings.

The biggest challenge for me is letting the kids ride their bikes on the road. Since we live on a gravel road it's not always smooth to ride along the side. Also we have tractors, grain trucks,etc that go by. I think the neighbors have finally figured out that kids live here and are finally starting to slow down. We still get some that fly through here pretty fast. The older boys have been drilled on safe riding and the rules of the road. They still aren't allowed to ride on the road during harvest when there are lots of trucks going back and forth. The younger kids can only take theirs (with training wheels) out when I or dh go with them.

My three year old can keep up with the older kids pretty well and I don't worry too much about his climbing, however we do restrict him from climbing to the top bunk bed.

Kat, I don't think you're being prude at all. Someone once told me that parents who let their kids run wild just make our job as parents that much harder.

coulie

03-11-2001, 01:33 PM

Not to make light of this tough situation but for me...well when you said you wouldn't "even let him smoke in the house, let alone have sex..." I think sex is healthier than smoking. I would be much more apt to let my 18 year old have sex in my house than smoke in it. I mean if he's 18 it's his deal. If she is housing him I hope she's charging rent. I will charge my kids rent as soon as they are 18 because if I don't they will get a false expectation that mom is here to bail them out of what's real in this world. I would create a dependency that I don't want and it would disable them. But wait....if they are full time students I would go easy on them:) I think to expect an 18 year old to not have sex because it's "her" rule is not realistic. The 18 year old will have sex regardless of the parents rules if in fact they want to. If my kids don't want to live at home and pay rent then they will be free to live somewhere else at 18. I think she has to uphold and enforce her rules but she needs to clean those rules up a bit. Until then I sincerely doubt your child will be adversly affected by staying there and in fact you may do more long term harm by disallowing him to go. Just make sure you are clear with your ds on your boundaries and expectations of his behavior while he's there. Good luck
Coulie

coulie

03-11-2001, 01:37 PM

sorry Kat...I got the him's and the her's mixed up a bit on my post. And one more thing...I don't think you're a prude. I think you care about your kid

Coulie

Mickey

03-11-2001, 02:39 PM

Originally posted by coulie
Not to make light of this tough situation but for me...well when you said you wouldn't "even let him smoke in the house, let alone have sex..." I think sex is healthier than smoking. I would be much more apt to let my 18 year old have sex in my house than smoke in it. I mean if he's 18 it's his deal....

...I think to expect an 18 year old to not have sex because it's "her" rule is not realistic. The 18 year old will have sex regardless of the parents rules if in fact they want to.
If my kids don't want to live at home and pay rent then they will be free to live somewhere else at 18. I think she has to uphold and enforce her rules but she needs to clean those rules up a bit...

I'm no prude by any stretch of the imagination, but I have to say I was very surprised by your reply, coulie.

First of all, there are health risks involved with both smoking and sex. Monogamous sex between two committed adults is very healthy, but an 18 yo having sex with her current boyfriend in her parents' house is not healthy. Not only is it risky health-wise, there are also moral issues involved with premarital sex and as a parent, I think it's important to encourage waiting, whether you think they will or not. Yeah, there may be a good chance that they will do it anyway, but why condone it by allowing it in your house?

darlene

03-11-2001, 05:51 PM

Originally posted by Linda/NE

The biggest challenge for me is letting the kids ride their bikes on the road. Since we live on a gravel road it's not always smooth to ride along the side. Also we have tractors, grain trucks,etc that go by. I think the neighbors have finally figured out that kids live here and are finally starting to slow down. We still get some that fly through here pretty fast. The older boys have been drilled on safe riding and the rules of the road. They still aren't allowed to ride on the road during harvest when there are lots of trucks going back and forth. The younger kids can only take theirs (with training wheels) out when I or dh go with them.

I know exactly how you feel Linda! We are in the same situation with our kids. DD wants to ride alone to school and I haven't been able to convince myself that she is ready!
:)

Amy2

03-11-2001, 06:14 PM

I have to say I agree with coulie on the "sex is more dangerous than smoking" comment. Sex is unsafe for young adults if they don't practice safe sex, but if you child is well informed, they will have learned this long before they turn 18. Okay, true confessions here, I moved in with my boyfriend right out of high school, turned 18 the following July. Not much my mom could have done about it, and happily she didn't guilt trip me, or make me feel awful. She let me make my own choice, and the cards fell where they fell. Needless to say, this boy is not my husband now, or the father of my children. But was I "damaged" by the relationship? I don't think so. It helped me learn a great deal.
As to what to tell your twelve year old, I would think this would be a PERFECT opportunity to teach him what you believe. Morally, physically, all of it. It sounds like you feel that sex is dangerous, and here is the golden learning opportunity to teach him why. You also feel it is morally wrong, again, visual aid!
But no, I don't think it would harm him to see this, just give him another perspective, and if he has been raised well, he will make good choices.

coulie

03-11-2001, 07:53 PM

Mickey..I think you missed my point a bit. Yes, engaging in sexual behavior has potential health risks. I have frequent and open conversations with my children about the effects of teen sex in our society. I give them a chance to ask candid questions about sex. I talk to them about oral sex in particualar. Unfortunately there are parents who haven't discussed oral sex with their kids and these kids think that because it's not intercourse that it's safe sex. They are doing it and getting sick. We get very detailed during these talks because I want them fully aware of the risks involved. There also the issue of long term emotional risk They are not yet 18. My thirteen year old ds asked me once what I thought was appropriate behavior for him with girls. I took that as a sign that he really needed some answers and was afraid of doing the wrong thing with a girl. We had a glorious conversation about what it means to truly respect another human being and their sexual boundaries. Parents often rely too heavily on the "rule thing" regarding sex, "It's not right, it's immoral, we don't allow it...etc...A child will grow up and respond one of two ways to this approach. They will buy it only to have to face the struggle to find themselves later on (I'll risk citing this example although I am aware some may take offense. Please don't. My cousin bought a set of rules about sex and morals and is now a suicidal mormon woman of forty because she has no idea who she is. I am not saying this is the case with all Mormon women but her religion is the source of her pain in many ways. She based all her perspectives on a set of rules that someone told her were more right than her own.) or the child will rebel against the "rule" and seek sexual activity in spite of his/ her parents' wishes. I think in the case of Kat's sil, the rebellion thing has happened and the sil is now faced with a tough situation she helped to create by not guiding her children at a much earlier age. If a child is having sex by 18 it is a little too late to start cramming rules down them. I am not saying I condone the sex. I am saying the "rules" are determined much earlier by the kinds of communication parents have with thier kids before they even want to have sex. Your job as a parent is to afford your child, to the best of your ability, the opportunity to discover who they are and to provide them with ways in which they can express themsleves to the good of the world in which they live. Early sexual behavior is a symptom of a young adult attempting to discover themselves. Not the most productive way and I believe there are better, less risky ways to take the course of self dicovery.....but by 18 they have already signed up and paid tuition. A parent needs to counsel long before that time.
Coulie

Mickey

03-11-2001, 09:40 PM

I don't think I missed your point, I just think we're having two different conversations.

I'm talking about respect, not communication and sex education.

I am very open-minded and comfortable with sex and I know that communication about sex and the feelings that go along with it won't be a problem between my ds and me. I will tell him about life, love, respect for himself and others, emotional limits, risks, precautions, etc., etc. However, I won't let him sleep with his girlfriend under my roof. Period.

AnnW

03-11-2001, 09:52 PM

Bravo Mick..well said.
Ain't happening in my house either.

coulie

03-11-2001, 11:19 PM

yes..bravo Mick....and I agree, perhaps there are dif converations going on here. You are setting your boundaries and doing the work for those boundaries now instead of waiting until it's too late. I applaud that

Kat said "I wouldn't let my kid smoke in my house let alone have sex." All I said was...I think sex is healthier than smoking. I still think it is. The dif. is you can learn about sex and then have sex safely...you can learn all you want about smoking and you still cannot do it safely. If you don't want an adult child having sex in your house then that's a different topic. It sounds as though you are making this clear in your home at a time when it will take hold. My hunch is you will not be in the same boat as Kat's sil.

Thanks for the feedback,

Coulie

Amy2

03-11-2001, 11:56 PM

Oops. I misquoted when I said I agreed with Coulie's "Sex is more dangerous than smoking" when I meant to say "Smoking is more dangerous than sex."

03-12-2001, 11:42 AM

I haven't had to "cross this bridge" yet, I think I at this point in my opinionated parenthood would choose the "not under my roof philosophy", but on the other hand, there are many effective parents out there who would rather, as long as their kids were bent on doing something (whether it be smoking, drinking, sex, or drugs)that they did it at home than somewhere else, like a dark alley. At least then they knew where their kids were, and what they were doing, instead of worrying and wondering. I just had to throw that in.

AnnW

03-12-2001, 11:46 AM

Originally posted by MK
I haven't had to "cross this bridge" yet, I think I at this point in my opinionated parenthood would choose the "not under my roof philosophy", but on the other hand, there are many effective parents out there who would rather, as long as their kids were bent on doing something (whether it be smoking, drinking, sex, or drugs)that they did it at home than somewhere else, like a dark alley. At least then they knew where their kids were, and what they were doing, instead of worrying and wondering. I just had to throw that in.

But isn't that teaching your children a mix message "we disapprove of this behavior, but we know you are going to do it anyway, so go ahead and do it here"?????

RCT

03-12-2001, 07:10 PM

and well, kinda funny, When I was younger, and lived with my parents after High School, I moved out, moved back for a the last year of College, anyway, I smoked back then, but never in front of my parents, not that they didn't know, but out of RESPECT. I also Had premarital SEX, I know, can you believe it....LOL...which I never had in my parents HOUSE ever...out of RESPECT for them....Things haved changed in the last well.....20 years but, I am hoping that my children will have RESPECT for me and thier father....I too hope and am trying to instill good moral values, and abstence being the best route, especially in this day and age....Smoking is terribly additive, I think its the one thing in my life I would definetly change if I could go back in time, I would never of had that first one so many years ago.... and i have told my kids 3-5 this too...my kids have watched me struggle with quitting.....many times...LOL..this last time though it has stuck and I am still not smoking......the kids tell me almost everyday, how smoking kills, that they are glad I don't smoke anymore and how nice I smell.....I hope that at this young age they remember that.....The sex issue is all together mind boggling, how can I teach my children to abstain, when I myself didn't.....blah blah blah....I know another topic another post....but I can instill and expect RESPECT. JMHO

[Edited by RCT on 03-12-2001 at 06:14 PM]

Amy2

03-12-2001, 07:49 PM

It seems to me that by the time your child is eighteen years old they are who they are. Hopefully you have instilled whatever values in them you hope they will have, but if not, I doubt you can change them by that point.

A scenario: Your seventeen/eighteen year old child moves to another state to go to college. She falls madly in love with "Joe" and tells you that he has moved in with her. She knows you don't approve, but she's made this decision anyway. You tell her you really want her to come home for Christmas. (And you really do! Your baby is away from home and you miss her so much!!) She says she really wants to, but won't without Joe, and since they are living together, she isn't going to pretend they aren't. Okay, so do you tell her "not under my roof" and let her not come?

For me, I wouldn't do that. She's an adult now, and it's up to her to make her own decisions. I wouldn't choose my moral beliefs over spending time with her. That's just me. What do you think?

AnnW

03-12-2001, 09:44 PM

I have no problem with saying "not in my house". I would not be happy if either of my kids lived together without being married, but if they did I would respect it, not approve. By respecting their decision, I would not constantly bring up how much I disapprove of their choice. On the same token, I would expect them to respect me and not flaunt something in my face that they know I disapprove of.

Mickey

03-12-2001, 10:02 PM

Originally posted by AnnW
I have no problem with saying "not in my house". I would not be happy if either of my kids lived together without being married, but if they did I would respect it, not approve. By respecting their decision, I would not constantly bring up how much I disapprove of their choice. On the same token, I would expect them to respect me and not flaunt something in my face that they know I disapprove of.

Excellently put, Queenie! That's the thing...I would want them to respect me enough to not even ask.

I would never in a million years even dream of asking my mom if my boyfriend could stay over night!

And I LOVED that you said your mom wouldn't allow her unmarried friends to sleep in the same room because you were going to be there. I like that!

Mickey

03-12-2001, 10:12 PM

Originally posted by Amy
It seems to me that by the time your child is eighteen years old they are who they are. Hopefully you have instilled whatever values in them you hope they will have, but if not, I doubt you can change them by that point.

A scenario: Your seventeen/eighteen year old child moves to another state to go to college. She falls madly in love with "Joe" and tells you that he has moved in with her. She knows you don't approve, but she's made this decision anyway. You tell her you really want her to come home for Christmas. (And you really do! Your baby is away from home and you miss her so much!!) She says she really wants to, but won't without Joe, and since they are living together, she isn't going to pretend they aren't. Okay, so do you tell her "not under my roof" and let her not come?

For me, I wouldn't do that. She's an adult now, and it's up to her to make her own decisions. I wouldn't choose my moral beliefs over spending time with her. That's just me. What do you think?

Firstly, it's not about trying to change them...it's about them having enough respect for you, like Ann said, not to flaunt it in your face when they know you disapprove.

As far as my daughter living with her boyfriend in college and wanting to bring her boyfriend home with her for Christmas--bring him...I'll fix up the spare bedroom for him. If she doesn't like it, they can stay at a hotel or not come. It would be her decision, but I wouldn't compromise my position on it because I want her home for Christmas.

And if I were footing the bill for her apartment at college and her boyfriend moved in with her, I'd probably tell her that if she wants to be all grown up and play house without being married, she can pay her own bills. I just couldn't make it financially possible for them to do it.

AnnW

03-12-2001, 10:13 PM

Thanks Mick! :)
I am not saying that I never did anything that my parents wouldn't approve of, BUT never in a million years would I have dreamed of doing them in their house!
I was really impressed by my mom's actions too..to me it showed that she cared about me, that she "walked the talk" and that she was a person of her convictions..it made me admire her even more.

AnnW

03-12-2001, 10:16 PM

Originally posted by Mickey
[
As far as my daughter living with her boyfriend in college and wanting to bring her boyfriend home with her for Christmas--bring him...I'll fix up the spare bedroom for him. If she doesn't like it, they can stay at a hotel or not come. It would be her decision, but I wouldn't compromise my position on it because I want her home for Christmas.

And if I were footing the bill for her apartment at college and her boyfriend moved in with her, I'd probably tell her that if she wants to be all grown up and play house without being married, she can pay her own bills. I just couldn't make it financially possible for them to do it. [/B]

yep, yep, yep!!!!!

Diane

03-12-2001, 10:23 PM

I also believe that when you have younger children in the household you have to set examples... and I don't see any other choice but to stick to what you believe in. If you allow it for one... you'll have to allow it for the others and I don't want any of my children growing up thinking that "it's okay" when I don't believe it is. I would never allow any of my dd's to bring their boyfriend home expecting that they will be sleeping together in the same bed. Their boyfriends will always be welcome in my home... but never IN my dd's bed. What they do away from home is their business but I don't feel it's right for them to flaunt it... If they respect you at all, they wouldn't even ask.

[Edited by Diane P. on 03-12-2001 at 09:26 PM]

kat

03-12-2001, 11:18 PM

Originally posted by Amy

I wouldn't choose my moral beliefs over spending time with her.

What kind of message does that send? Your moral convictions aren't really convictions at all? I agree with Mickey, it is an issue of respect for my beliefs. You can fix up a spare room or they can go to a hotel. The biggest issue is that there is a younger ds at home. Fifteen years from now if son was in a loooong term committed relationship, I might have to revisit the issue. Even as I type that though, I'm uncomfortable.

Parenting is hard. I look back and think my poor mom. I really was a good kid though, but it really hurt her to learn that at 19 I was having sex. It never even crossed my mind to try to do that in her home out of respect for her (even though I thought she was so old fashioned). Now look at who is old fashioned.

Anyway, ladies, I've appreciated everyone's comments.

Diane

03-12-2001, 11:33 PM

Originally posted by AnnW

Originally posted by Mickey
[
As far as my daughter living with her boyfriend in college and wanting to bring her boyfriend home with her for Christmas--bring him...I'll fix up the spare bedroom for him. If she doesn't like it, they can stay at a hotel or not come. It would be her decision, but I wouldn't compromise my position on it because I want her home for Christmas.

And if I were footing the bill for her apartment at college and her boyfriend moved in with her, I'd probably tell her that if she wants to be all grown up and play house without being married, she can pay her own bills. I just couldn't make it financially possible for them to do it.

yep, yep, yep!!!!! [/B]

I like your way of thinking... I'd do the same exact thing. :) I'm glad that none of my dd's have never tried this on me... but then again I think they know me better than to even try! I know that they know they would never get away with it. LOL

Diane P.~

AnnW

03-13-2001, 11:01 AM

Originally posted by Diane P.
[QUOTE][i]I like your way of thinking... I'd do the same exact thing. :) I'm glad that none of my dd's have never tried this on me... but then again I think they know me better than to even try! I know that they know they would never get away with it. LOL

Diane P.~

thanks! It's also nice to hear from someone who actually has kids this age who feels this way. We can all speculate, but it's nice to hear that we really don't have to compromise our values just cause they are older.

RCT

03-13-2001, 11:30 AM

Originally posted by Mickey

As far as my daughter living with her boyfriend in college and wanting to bring her boyfriend home with her for Christmas--bring him...I'll fix up the spare bedroom for him. If she doesn't like it, they can stay at a hotel or not come. It would be her decision, but I wouldn't compromise my position on it because I want her home for Christmas.

And if I were footing the bill for her apartment at college and her boyfriend moved in with her, I'd probably tell her that if she wants to be all grown up and play house without being married, she can pay her own bills. I just couldn't make it financially possible for them to do it.

Wow did I write that.....those are the exact thought I was having when I read the question.....and the smoking thing too....if my children some how find themselfs smoking, then they can do this outside of my house....NOT in it....

Amy2

03-13-2001, 12:06 PM

Well, I guess I have realized that to me it's really just not that big of a deal. With all the "Yep, yep, yeps!!!" and the "couldn't agree more" and such, I am clearly in the minority. At the risk of becoming a pariah, I will share a story...Years ago I was living in the basement of a friend and her family. They had two young children in the house. I had my own space downstairs, but shared their kitchen and bathroom upstairs. Well, I met this man while I was living there. Wanting to be respectful of my friends, I asked how they felt about my having him over. Both of them said they had no problems with it, and she said "I just don't see how children seeing two people loving each other can be harmful." I thought that was very well said. Today this man is my husband, those children call my children their "cousins" and the parents are our children's guardians. Her children are incredibly well adjusted, smart, active kids.

I think promiscuity is dangerous, both emotionally and physically, and I think that we should love and respect our bodies and our selves, but I don't think that sex in general is dangerous, or morally wrong even if the partners are not married. I would wager a guess that there are not many of us here that were virgins on our wedding nights! (Could be wrong, but I doubt it!) I think we are waaaay too uptight about sex in general, and have placed all this stigma to it, when it is, to me, an expression of love.

As to my own children, I wouldn't have a problem with having unmarried partners sleeping over as guests in our home.

RCT

03-13-2001, 01:25 PM

Like I said in my post, I'm a do as I say not as I do/did kind of parent...I can't go back and change my life, nor would I want to....but as far as sex being dangerous...I thought it was dangerous when I was a teen, Pregnancy....that scared the heck out of me...I watched my best friend deliver a child when she was thirteen, in her bathroom over the toliet, because she was so scared she never told anyone she was pregnant....my mother was who the girl called, not her own mother, but mine who lived across the street....needless to say watching my best friend give birth and then give up for adoption a child, the way I saw it was a product of sex. I say sex is dangerous, emotionally as well as all the disease factors....I think smoking is dangerous.....but I think that I can with all my heart premarital sex and smoking aren't the real issue here its a matter of what YOU as a parent will and will not allow in your home......just a personal prefferance, something that make all of us, as parents DIFFERENT....

I enjoyed reading all the opinions here....

Amy2

03-13-2001, 08:40 PM

RCT~ Oh my gosh!! How intense that must have been for you. I can see how that might color your thinking as to the dangers of sex. To me, being UNINFORMED (not shouting, just don't know how to do italics) about sex is dangerous. Sex in itself isn't dangerous if you know how to protect yourself and your partner. How very sad that this poor, ignorant child couldn't to go her parents! I think that would kill me, if my children couldn't come to me about anything, especially something so huge. How lucky you were/are to have a mother you and your friends could trust!

Diane

03-14-2001, 01:44 AM

Originally posted by Amy
Well, I guess I have realized that to me it's really just not that big of a deal. At the risk of becoming a pariah, I will share a story...Years ago I was living in the basement of a friend and her family. They had two young children in the house. I had my own space downstairs, but shared their kitchen and bathroom upstairs. Well, I met this man while I was living there. Wanting to be respectful of my friends, I asked how they felt about my having him over. Both of them said they had no problems with it, and she said "I just don't see how children seeing two people loving each other can be harmful." I thought that was very well said. Today this man is my husband, those children call my children their "cousins" and the parents are our children's guardians. Her children are incredibly well adjusted, smart, active kids.

I think promiscuity is dangerous, both emotionally and physically, and I think that we should love and respect our bodies and our selves, but I don't think that sex in general is dangerous, or morally wrong even if the partners are not married. I would wager a guess that there are not many of us here that were virgins on our wedding nights! (Could be wrong, but I doubt it!) I think we are waaaay too uptight about sex in general, and have placed all this stigma to it, when it is, to me, an expression of love.

As to my own children, I wouldn't have a problem with having unmarried partners sleeping over as guests in our home.

Not wanting to start a debate but Amy... I was just wondering how your parents would have felt had this been their house you were inviting your boyfriend to move into? Seeing these were just "friends"... I'm sure they didn't/wouldn't feel as protective of you as a parent would their child. Also, had this been your parents house and those two young children were your sisters, I'm thinking that your parents might have been a little bit more apprehensive and cautious about allowing you to do this in front of your sisters than a friend might feel... simply because, you were not their child and they were not your parents... and they don't have to answer for what you decide to do.

I've always tried to set good examples to all of my children, and hopefully they'll follow those examples... but if they don't, it's certainly not going to be because I didn't try hard enough to teach them properly. In the end it's going to be their decision... but I'll NEVER make it easy for them (providing them a place) to do something that I feel is morally wrong.

Amy... I'm so glad that your story had a happy ending, but that's not always the case. IMHO I can't help but feel that your friends were lucky enough that you and your then boyfriend were in love and committed enough to each other and eventually ended up getting married... but what if it hadn't turned out the way it did? What if you had broken up with him and gone on to have one... two, or maybe even three other relationships with other guy's? What kind of an example do you think you would have been setting for them then? Don't you think that would have confused those kids or at least left them with the feeling that it was okay to sleep around with many? IMHO that wouldn't be teaching them the things that I would want them to know. JMHO

I'm NOT judging you at all, so please don't take my post that way. You are definitely entitled to feel/believe the way you do and I totally respect that. :) Oh yeah... not that it matters but I was a virgin when I got married. LOL :)

[Edited by Diane P. on 03-14-2001 at 12:50 AM]

Amy2

03-14-2001, 01:07 PM

Diane, no offense taken!

As I said, I don't think promiscuity is healthy, emotionally or otherwise. So I don't think I would have shown these kids many, many partners traipsing in and out of my bedroom.

I think it's the sex before marriage thing. Some people think this is a really big deal, and some don't. I don't. If it's a loving relationship, I think sex is okay. Just MHO. And I don't think it hurts kids to be around it. (Let me clarify, I wouldn't of course have the child see the SEX, but seeing my partner coming out of my room in the morning...you know.)

Now, I'm going way out on a limb here, but personally, I don't think people should even get married before they are thirty. It's like John Bradshaw (Bradshaw on the Family) talks about. I think that our twenties are such a discovery phase in our lives, and we change and grow so much in that decade. I think it is so much healthier to have lots of different relationships, well, maybe not lots, but some, where you learn about what is important to you in a partner, how you deal with things, what happiness is for you, how you can bring that into a relationship.

I think it would be great if you could meet someone in your teens and early twenties and grow WITH that someone, but as fifty one percent of all marriages end in divorce, it is clear that that doesn't happen. I think if people waited until they are older, they would be more clear and ready for the committment. This way, having their families later, so many children wouldn't be in unhappy families, or divorced families.

I would have been a terrible mother in my twenties. There was so much I wanted to do. And had I met my husband any earlier, I doubt if I would have been ready for him either! We got married when I was thirty two, and had our first child when i was thirty four. I am so, so, so in love with them all, and was completely ready to be a family. NO regrets, NO resentments. I know that my marriage will last forever. (Okay, I'm hoping! My husband may get sick of me before then!)

Anyway...sorry this is so OT!

kat

03-14-2001, 03:30 PM

In the end it's going to be their decision... but I'll NEVER make it easy for them (providing them a place) to do something that I feel is morally wrong

Exactly!!

coulie

03-14-2001, 10:29 PM

Short on time and long on opinion here. Must be everyone's lucky day!
Must, must say that Amy hit a chord with me. "Not in my house" mentality is alive and well and it feeds our system in such a way that we continue to let it thrive. Gee, what would happen if our families decided to get healthy about sexuality. Gee, I guess unwanted pregnancies would disappear because young women wouldn't need to seek sex to validate thier sacred nature. Men would understand the importance of intimacy and would no longer beat thier wives. Or at best cease to ignore them. he women would feel fullfilled and honored and the children would enjoy a healthy union between thier parents and grow to be healthy partners themselves. But it won't happen because we need our jobs as attorneys and social health experts and insurance agents, etc...etc...
Good thing my DH understands this and he just cooked my dinner so I must go honor his efforts.
No intention to offend but seriously tired of society dancing around it's resposibility to our children and to ourselves.
Coulie

angie r

03-14-2001, 10:40 PM

Originally posted by coulie
Gee, what would happen if our families decided to get healthy about sexuality. Gee, I guess unwanted pregnancies would disappear because young women wouldn't need to seek sex to validate thier sacred nature. Men would understand the importance of intimacy and would no longer beat thier wives. Or at best cease to ignore them. he women would feel fullfilled and honored and the children would enjoy a healthy union between thier parents and grow to be healthy partners themselves. But it won't happen because we need our jobs as attorneys and social health experts and insurance agents, etc...etc...

So if we allow our children to have sex anywhere, anytime, including in their own rooms, they wouldn't have sex? Men wouldn't beat their wives? Am I reading this wrong?

AnnW

03-14-2001, 10:54 PM

I was going to ask the same question angie...no offense, coulie, but that is the most ridiculous assumption I have ever heard made! How in the world did raising our kids to repsect our beliefs get blamed for unwanted pregnanacies, spousal abuse and an unhealthy attitude toward sex?

Why is this so terribly different from any parenting value/moral decision that we try to teach our kids? Every family is different. If you have no problem with your children having sex, young and out of marriage, then fine..but WHY is it so awful to tell your child "I think it is wrong, it goes against everything I believe, and you will not insult me by having sex in my home?" Is this really any different than have the same conversation and substituting the word "alcohol"? Some people feel just as strongly about drinking. My adult brother's inlaws do not drink, my brother and sil have been known to have a glass of wine now and then, but when they go to visit her parents or they come here, they don't start swiggin' the wine out of REPSECT to her parents. If respect is the cause of spousal abuse, promiscuity, divorce, unhealthy self esteem...then we all are doomed.

And btw...my dh cooks dinner with me most evenings, helps with the kids, does chores around the house, and he would have never dreamed of shacking up with a girl in his parents' house!!! LOL

[Edited by AnnW on 03-14-2001 at 10:18 PM]

Amy2

03-15-2001, 01:29 AM

I don't want to put words into Coulie's mouth, but what I think she is saying is that if we weren't so messed up about sex, thinking it is this evil, dangerous thing, that all the aforementioned ills would be less prevalent.

People will allow their children to play violent games, watch violent movies, etc., but consider sex to be the "bad" thing. Whereas sex in itself; loving, consensual sex between two adults is a healthy, positive thing.

Now, I come from a family where my parents never had a problem with us bringing our partners home with us, sharing our beds. It was just not that big of a deal. And I in turn don't think it's a big deal.

I do agree with those of you who talked about the respect issue. We set down rules in our houses, and everyone must abide by them. My dad is somewhat of a curmudgeon. He means well, but sometimes his language is racist and abusive. I remember years ago inviting him to join us for Christmas and telling him "But if you use the word nigger in my house, you'll be asked to leave. Period." He came, and there was no issue. I believe this is the point being made here. For me, I would want my child to bring their "life" home, whatever that means, and I wouldn't want them to stay in a motel rather than with me.

I also think that while you hear so many jokes about people being grossed out thinking about their parents having sex, not many parents like to think of their children as sexual beings. That is a threatening, scary thing, I think.

Amy

AnnW

03-15-2001, 10:15 AM

I don't think any of the posts I read suggested that sex was dirty or something to be done behind closed doors. I think they all spoke of the respect issue that you mentioned. I think sex is wonderful, I was always taught it was wonderful BUT something done within the boundaries of marriage. I respected my parents wishes, just like you asked your father to respect your wishes. I think everyone was talking about respect.

coulie

03-15-2001, 11:25 AM

This discussion seems to be going all over the place.
I just want to ask a question.
Do you live by the letter of the law or by the spirit of the law?
I live by the spirit of the law. If my child was 18 or older and thought that "crashing" at my house was ok I would make it clear that it was not ok. I would have made it clear long before that time.
If my child was 18 or older, living at home, paying rent, attending college, etc..generally demonstrating some real control and maturity over his life and wanted to have his girlfriend stay over I would allow it. I would also take into account the philosophies regarding safe sex that my son had demostrated during the few years prior. Under those circumstances I just can't imagine what horrible mightmare would befall him/her or our family.
It's the "not in my house, EVER" thing that makes me wonder...What are you so afraid will happen? A rule is a rule and under no circumstance will it be changed? The rationale to this perspective eludes me. If it is for religious reasons then I understand and respect it.
When I was speaking about societal ills, it's obvious I failed to communicate my point to some. Amy seemed to get it. And btw Amy, go ahead, put words in my mouth.
I think many, not all, of our societal problems are rooted in problematic family systems. If I ask myself what causes a family to disfuncion the answer for me always boils down to a problem of connection, communication and intimacy between the parents.The broken family syndrome. I realize other reasons are sometimes the case.
In addition, I am deeply disturbed by the level of sexual disfunction in our society and I have my opinion about where it comes from. When I heard the comment early on in this discussion that implying that smoking was by degree less harmful than sex...well, I took issue with that.
I didn't come here to make enemies. I sincerely enjoy all of the perspectives. If I have offended anyone it was not my intent. Please accept my apologies.

Enjoy your day!
Coulie

03-15-2001, 12:04 PM

Originally posted by Mickey

Originally posted by Amy
It seems to me that by the time your child is eighteen years old they are who they are. Hopefully you have instilled whatever values in them you hope they will have, but if not, I doubt you can change them by that point.

A scenario: Your seventeen/eighteen year old child moves to another state to go to college. She falls madly in love with "Joe" and tells you that he has moved in with her. She knows you don't approve, but she's made this decision anyway. You tell her you really want her to come home for Christmas. (And you really do! Your baby is away from home and you miss her so much!!) She says she really wants to, but won't without Joe, and since they are living together, she isn't going to pretend they aren't. Okay, so do you tell her "not under my roof" and let her not come?

For me, I wouldn't do that. She's an adult now, and it's up to her to make her own decisions. I wouldn't choose my moral beliefs over spending time with her. That's just me. What do you think?

Firstly, it's not about trying to change them...it's about them having enough respect for you, like Ann said, not to flaunt it in your face when they know you disapprove.

As far as my daughter living with her boyfriend in college and wanting to bring her boyfriend home with her for Christmas--bring him...I'll fix up the spare bedroom for him. If she doesn't like it, they can stay at a hotel or not come. It would be her decision, but I wouldn't compromise my position on it because I want her home for Christmas.

And if I were footing the bill for her apartment at college and her boyfriend moved in with her, I'd probably tell her that if she wants to be all grown up and play house without being married, she can pay her own bills. I just couldn't make it financially possible for them to do it.

That what I was going to say! In fact, here is a real life example: My mother, divorced(and in her fifties), stays at a motel when she visits because my grandmother will not permit her and her boyfriend to sleep in the same room. If they do stay at my grandmother's they will sleep in separate rooms.

Several years ago, when my brother was getting married, my grandmother came out to the wedding, and was staying with my mom. My mom's boyfriend had to go sleep in a different bed out of consideration for my grandmother's moral comfort-- and it was my mother's house!

.

RCT

03-15-2001, 12:54 PM

jumping in again....SEX is healthy, wonderful, great exercise FOR TWO CONSENTING ADULTS, in a loving relationship.....Marriage being that relationship.....I was raised with a healthy attidute toward sex, and all the wonders of being in love with someone, and sharing that kind of realtionship.....the same woman who explained sex and where babies come from, was the same woman who also explained to me very young that some people in this world are twisted sexually wanting to get children in thier beds and to never go with a stranger....blah blah blah, the two truths about sex.....are it's best when your in love .....and it can be an emotional roller coaster for someone who is too young......I think that the issue at hand is that it comes down to RESPECT, not if your child is having sex or smoking, or whatever.....Respecting the parents is like a lost art form.....

I say this in the nicest way I know how, but are you thinking because you had pre-marital sex that you need to defend it? Because if you are, which I am not saying you are....I don't think thats true...like I stated before...I met dh in June, and was living with him by July....that was 13 years ago....weve been married for 10 of those years.....no regrets....but I never stayed in my families home,in those three years, and slept in the same bed, let alone room, as my future dh....out of respect for my parents....JMHO....

Amy2

03-15-2001, 02:50 PM

RCT~ I'm not sure who you are asking this question, (because I had premarital sex, do I feel the need to defend it) so at the risk of being presumptuous I will answer. No, it's not because I did it, it's because I really, really don't think it's wrong. As I stated in one of my earlier posts, I don't think people should even get married until they are over thirty! I personally wouldn't marry someone I hadn't slept with, and I wouldn't want my kids to either. As I said, premarital sex is just NOT a big deal to me, other than as an important part of learning about love and relationships. I do agree with you that it's best in a loving, committed relationship (whether or not that is a lifetime committment or not.) I believe once you are married you are committed to having sex only with that person throughout your marriage. I also agree it can be harmful for children if they are too young and don't understand what they are doing. But is 18 too young? I don't think so. I was in love at 18. Thank God I didn't marry the boy, though! (Saw him at my twentieth HS reunion, and he was very nice, but still...) I think if you haven't taught your children to know how to deal with sex by the time they are 18 you've really missed the boat.

kat

03-15-2001, 05:26 PM

...I think that the issue at hand is that it comes down to RESPECT, not if your child is having sex or smoking, or whatever.....Respecting the parents is like a lost art form.....

You've hit the nail on the head. In my first post I did not mean to imply smoking or sex was any more safe or "wrong" than the other, just that in my house you don't do it.

Respecting teachers and other students is also a major problem in the schools today. When I was in school you just did not disrespect a teacher. Today I can tell students who are not in my class to do or not to do something and I am given a "Who the hell do you think you are look" like I don't have to listen to you because you are not my teacher.