Question for Kat and MaryL!!!

[Amy]

I need your expertise!!

Ds is speech and language delayed ( he is 4 yrs old) which also affected his development. He is bright, but acts younger than his age.

He is going to be in 4 year old pre-school this year and get special ed and speech therapy.

My question is-how do you evaluate if a child is not ready for Kindergarten? Do you advise that a child be able to attempt Kindergarten and then repeat it if necessary or withhold them from school for an extra year? Which ever one you choose, could you explain why? THANKS!!!

[MaryL]

Originally posted by Amy/CO


My question is-how do you evaluate if a child is not ready for Kindergarten? Do you advise that a child be able to attempt Kindergarten and then repeat it if necessary or withhold them from school for an extra year? Which ever one you choose, could you explain why? THANKS!!!

At my school I conduct a Kindergarten Screening...one on one using the Dial-R. I also speak with parents, and have them fill out a questionnaire about their child. Every situation is unique...and I evaluate children with that in mind. Kat has a much more "in depth" Kdg. Screening...and that will be interesting to hear what is done at her school. At my school, I pretty much make all decisions about who comes in (who's not ready) etc. I refer parents to their local public school when I make a recommendation for a Speech/Language Eval. or a M-Team (IEP staffing).

The first thing I look at (of course) is age (birthdate falls before our Sept. 1st cut off).

I look at the screening results, as well as consider my discussion with parents. If a parent is reluctant to have their child enter, we discuss this...and I invite them to come to a "typical day" to see if they feel their child will fit in. I guess part of my philosophy is that there is no harm in trying it out...and if a child is 5 and doesn't have a end of July/August birthday...I do everything in my power to make it work out. I have a little boy in my class this year who just turned 5 today...his parents have already mentioned that they might want him to spend a second year in Kindergarten. I understand their concerns...right now he's doing well, but we will take a look at their concerns again in October and January conferences. I like the openess of these parents...

I have retained children in Kindergarten, and they do great in their 2nd year of Kindergarten. I believe that if a child really needs to spend two years with me...then they aren't at a point to really "understand" what they're missing in 1st grade. I can give them the gift of another year in K5.

Other things I consider for Kdg. readiness: Child's size (big for age?? Small for age??), Have they been able to make good friendships...or are they still parallel playing/working? Is he interested in going to school, or rather passive about it? Are parents concerned about academic readiness, or social (emotional) readiness? And other "subjective" sorts of observations...

You'll probably learn the most by watching how your ds does this year. Does he seem excited? How does he fit in with the other children (is it a comfortable "age" group for him...etc)? Talk often with both his teacher and the speech/spec. ed teachers. I think you sound like a marvelous parent....very "real" about your child's education.

I don't think I've been much help....but hope I've given you some things to think about. :)

[Amy]

Thanks Mary, I really appreciated your insight!

Ds's b-day is in early May. Its conflicting for me because the cut-off date here is July 1st and back East where he will be going to Kindergarten it is Dec. 1st. So he is a young "4" here. He is of average size. It was interesting that you mentioned parallel playing. He paralleled played all last year and just started noticing this summer playing with other young boys at the playground (I started crying-LOL). He has made HUGE improvements, but still is quite behind inhis age group for language and speech.

I am definitely keeping both eyes on his progess this year. He has the same teacher as he did last year, so she know exactly how to deal with him and loves him to death.

I guess my heart tells me not to deny him the chance to prove everyone wrong. I have no problem repeating Kindergarten if necessary, but to deny him the opportunity to blossom kind of puts me off.

Also for you and kat-what do you expect the kids to know in terms of number, letters, shapes and color recognition before they enter?

[MaryL]

I expect the kids in my class to be able to print their name (not perfectly...but to the best of their ability), identify the letters in their names, rote count to at least 10, name common colors and shapes (circle, square, triangle,...we work on diamond, rectangle, and oval!), follow a two step direction, and have enough self control to listen to a story. The abilities of the children in my class vary...which makes the first month kind of crazy! I have a couple of excellent readers (REALLY!!!!), and two children who can only identify a couple of letters. It all works out, but can be a challenge.

It's a shame that K4 (pre-k) is what the traditional "kindergarten" used to be...and K5 (Kindergarten) is now so much more like the 1st grade that we all remember. Children are expected to know so much more than they used to.

The fact that your ds will have the same teacher again is a huge BONUS!!!! That will definately help him continue to grow and progress. Will he receive "pull out" speech therapy, and spec. ed services...or does the therapist come to his classroom?

Absolutely follow your heart. A parent's "gut" feeling is usually the best indicator of what is best for the child. Some parents just don't vocalize their feelings, and that's when miscommunication can occur. You've got a whole school year to watch him grow...as a Pre-K teacher, I can tell you that the changes I saw in most (all?!) of my 4 yr. olds last year were PHENOMINAL!! Now that I have them again this year in my K5 class, I am truly appreciating the growth they had last year.

[Amy]

Thanks again for your input! I will definitely watch him this year. He already knows his colors and shapes and I have been working on his letters and numbers. Technically, he will be with his pears in those terms by next year. I just need to watch his language delays.

[MaryL]

Kat????? Where are you??? Did your kinders lock you in a closet??? ;) Seriously...I know how busy it is!!! My feet are KILLING me!

[kat]

I just gave a 2 page reply and before I could post it got kicked off the internet. I will try again latter. I've got to go now. But I promise Amy I have some input even if most has been addressed by MaryL. I am not ditching your questions. Promise.

[kat]

OK, I promised to try this again. We use Early Prevention of School Failure to screen our kdg. kids prior to placing them in a class. It evaluates expressive & receptive lang., vocabulary, visual & auditory memory, visual & auditory discrimination, gross & fine motor skills. Our nurse weighs, measures and conducts a hearing & vision screen. Our Speech path. does a quick screen to see who might need a more intensive eval. Our counselor speaks with parents and goes over any personal concerns. We make note of how the kids interact with one another in the "holding room" as they await various portions of the screening, and how they relate to the examiners. The counselor enters all data into the computer and generates a composite. Then the teachers go over this, ranking each child and discusses any observations that might lead us to think a child's score might be a false low. We make recomendations about any kids that need to be seperated. The counselor then assigns kids. Each teacher gets a high, a low, and a middle score until we have a class. We also try to evenly split boys and girls.

We do honor parent requests as much as possible, but the greatest weight is given the screening process. If one teacher recieved requests that overloaded her class with highs or lows then the request would not be honored.

[kat]

I thought I'd do installments in case I get booted off before I can post again. LOL!

I'd like kids to be able to print their name well enough that I can figure out what it says. Most parents will teach a child to spell their names in all caps. First letter capitalized, the rest lower case of course is how I want it done. They should know 8 basic colors and 4 basic shapes. I'd like it if they could count in one to one correspondence to 10 and have some knowledge of letters. Kdg. really is a whole new world. I teach what I learned the first semester of 1st grade. I'll have them reading by January. And like MaryL said I'll have a whole range of abilities and maturity levels.

My biggest indicator of whether a child is ready for kdg. though is not whether he knows what I've just mentioned, but his ability to seperate from mom. I can teach the academics on several levels. Moms hear me on this one: long before the start of kdg. find ways your child can be seperated from you (and not with a relative) for short periods of time during the week. Pre-school, day care, mom's day out programs, anything that will ease them into being able to seperate from you.

Second, they should be able to sit and attend to a 15 - 20 minute lesson. They should also be able to follow simple 2 - 3 step directions.

I have retained kids before for various reasons. Sometimes it is because they just did not attain enough of the requisite skills needed for 1st grade. I don't know how it is where you guys are but here I think 1st is the hardest grade in terms of the volume of new skills taught. They hit the floor running and don't let up.

Sometimes I may even pass a child who hasn't quite got all the skills down, but would be bored to tears repeating kdg. which is still a good deal of socialization as well as teaching kids how to be students. Sometimes I know that a child may struggle in 1st, but feel repeating 1st is preferable to repeating kdg.

Most of the time when I retain though it is because a child is just immature. These kids then seem to blossom the next year when they are more emotionally and cognitively ready. On rare occasions we make a determination that a child is absolutely not ready for kdg. and needs a year to mature before they can even handle the stucture of school. In those instances we recommend the parents waiver. This was our recommendation for my cryer this year. Mom agreed, Dad did not and quite frankly after meeting with them, she would just be sitting at home not getting any help, no stimulation and being no more ready to start next year. This is a tough one. She's clearly being tramatized and the parents don't even agree.

Amy, if your little guy is already in a preschool program and enjoys it, I say try kdg. Even if he does need to repeat you've given him a year to experience things he might not at home, and like you said, he may prove people wrong and blossom. I never see a child as "failing" kdg. This is a year of preparation and for some little ones it may take 2 years. You are already taking so many steps to insure that school is positive for him. That goes a long way. Like MaryL said trust your "gut".

I feel like I've rambled. I hope I've helped.

[Amy]

Thanks kat! Your post helped a lot.


Reading your list I was amazed by what ds's strengths were and pinpointing his weaknesses.

Obviously, his expressive language and speech is my biggest worry. His receptive is fine. A lot of his problems stem from stuborness. We found out last year that instead of NOT being able to do something, he doesn't WANT to do something-such as sitting for circle time. He wanted to play blocks and was adamant about playing them instead of sitting down. The teacher's let him until we slowly started realizing that he was playing them. LOL The more he is maturing, the faster his speech/language comes too. I'm excited for this year for him. Just in this summer alone he has changed so much, I can't imagine what a school year with all this extra help will do for him!

Thank you Kat and Mary L again. It gives me goals to shoot for.

[MaryL]

Originally posted by kat


My biggest indicator of whether a child is ready for kdg. though is not whether he knows what I've just mentioned, but his ability to seperate from mom. I can teach the academics on several levels. Moms hear me on this one: long before the start of kdg. find ways your child can be seperated from you (and not with a relative) for short periods of time during the week. Pre-school, day care, mom's day out programs, anything that will ease them into being able to seperate from you.



I stood up and applauded at this part, Kat!!!!! Well said!!!!! Kindergarten teachers all over thank you for putting this so eloquently!!!!!!!!!!!:) ;) :thumb: :yippee:

You and I sound very comparable as teachers. I also agreed with your statement that sometimes it is preferable to repeat 1st grade rather than Kindergarten. In our school, this happens more often than me retaining a Kdg. child. I teach 1/2 day K5...and that switch to full day 1st grade is too much for some children. Most handle it beautifully, but a child who is struggling, or immature, or just needs the gift of "time", does very well repeating 1st grade. You're right when you say that 1st grade (curriculum and work load) is VERY different than Kdg. My own ds is just starting 1st grade, and he was EXHAUSTED on that first full day of school. It was kind of cute!