Religion Question (Non-Debate)

[Mickey]

I have a question that maybe someone here can answer. Being a home schooler, I have found that many people home school for religious reasons. I know MANY Christians (both of our co-ops use space at churches) and every week, it never fails that someone inevitably brings up their religion--they say things like, "I prayed about curriculum and the Lord guided me to Abeka!" or "Our Lord and Saviour never lets us down." or "I'm waiting for a sign about that." And on it goes. Most of them seriously can not carry on a two minute conversation without some reference to Christ or praying or their church and 9 times out of 10 they ask me if I'm a Christian. I always say, "Yes..." (and they smile)...and then I finish with, "I'm Catholic." And seriously, their faces ALWAYS drop and the subject of Christianity is never brought up again to me. I then read somewhere that non-Catholic Christians don't consider Catholics to be Christian. Is this true? I'm honestly not looking for a debate...I swear...I just really want to know why this happens to me. Are some Christian denominations taught to not respect or like Catholics? Why do I get a reaction like this?

I've actually started to use it as a showstopper and it works every time...if I feel like someone's on the verge of trying to convert me and invite me to their church, all I have to say is that I'm Catholic and it's never brought up again.

Btw, the church that a lot of these people attend is a "Christian Felllowship" and supposedly non-denominational.

Can anyone answer my questions? I'm seriously on the verge of asking the next person who does this point blank why they just did that. But I'd rather not come across as confrontational and I really don't think I'd get an honest answer face to face. So, I'm counting on my pretend friends (as my mother likes to refer to you all! ;)). Please help me understand!

TIA!
Mickey

[aztec_judy]

Mickey,
I have no idea about others, I can only answer as to the way that I was raised (which was strange enough). My Adopted MOM was a catholic ok.. And she was raised to believe that Jesus Christ was beneath the Apostles. But she never took me to a catholic church, infact I was raised in a Methodist church. I know she didn't like me talking about Jesus. To her he was a nobody. So as I grew I figured that was why alot of people didn't say much after whomever would say they were catholic. But I know that many of the catholics that I have talked to as the years went by do believe in Jesus. But have no idea if they were raised that way or when it changed. But thats all I can tell ya since I was not raised as one. But I have a very good friend in Calif that is Catholic, and she believes in Jesus. And we have had many discussions. But had never thought of asking her or talking about that with her. I know there are a couple of books in the Catholic Bible that is not in the King James Bible. Which is the one that I read the most. But to me it had always been strange how that does happen too. But had not given it much thought.
I know this doesn't really answer your question, but its the way "mom" tried to raise me. But she seemed more upset that I wouldn't settle to any one church and that all the churches put too much emphasis on Jesus Christ.
But like I said that was some time ago.

[Mickey]

Thank you for your reply, Judy. Your mother's views are interesting because I have never met a Catholic whose main religious focus was not Christ. And I've never known anyone who viewed Jesus as being below the apostles. He washes their feet at the last supper to demonstrate loving service to others, but I think I've read that this is viewed differently by Protestants (?). Could this be where your mother got her thoughts on this?

I do realize that some of our practices are misunderstood or misconstrued and that's ok...but we are Christians. I was just wondering why I get such a negative reaction.

[aztec_judy]

Mickey, Actually don't know. I know she was raised catholic. But for some reason she wouldn't allow me to go to any catholic church. When younger (about 7 yrs old) went to grandpas funeral, the catholic church. But once they, grandparents were gone she actually never returned to church at all.
But I remember, at 18 I said something about I was going to lean on Jesus and wait his reply an she sorta went balistic on me. And told me that he was nothing a nobody beneath the saints. I should be praying to the Virgin Mary if I was to pray. Oh and there was another time that I was being asked to join a church, think I was about 14, and they made the mistake of calling her after I had said no. And she went balistic then too.
But with her, you never asked questions about anything.
You could say my growing up years was sorta like this computer, I was given input, but not allowed output. Like I used to say I was just a programmed robot. So I dont' know how or why she thought as she did. I just assumed it was that way with all mexicans in tx. And with all catholics. But it wasn't really until 86 when I moved to calif that I really talked openly with catholics. Since I didn't know any before then.
I know that the 7th day church I am going to right now, do communion once a month an part of that is the washing of the feet, also. Which was strange for me because I had never even heard of any church doing that. I know its in the bible. But didn't know anyone even did that in todays society.
This is where I am also learning about the vegetarian side of things also. Sorta weird to me, but am willing to learn new things. But having a veryyyy hard time giving up my pork. I tease them about that ... lolol Thanksgiving just ain't thanksgiving without the ham... lololol
But anyways with "mom" am talking about atleast 35 yrs ago on most of it. So I don't know. ?(

[KathyT]

Mickey I think Roman Catholicism has often been viewed as "untouchable", in terms of religion hierarchy. It is a very formal relgion, steeped in ritual and tradition, yet extremely reserved. I think a lot of other relgions are more demonstrative in their faith. Perhaps the reaction you are getting isn't that Catholics aren't Christians, just that Catholics are different about how they go about it? I know a lot of my non Catholic friends are almost fascinated with RC.

[AnnW]

Well, cause Catholics are just going to burn in hell..that's why! LOL
Not sure why it is such a conversation ender, and maybe you can say nicely "I always get such a strange response when I mention I am Catholic, I am truly confused by it." and see what happens.

I was never taught to "hate Catholics. There are very many differences between Catholicism and main stream Protestant. We don't need an intermediary to talk to God, we believe we are saved by Grace and nothing that we can do (ie praying out of purgatory) can get us into Heaven. We believe a sin is a sin is a sin...no differences between them (ie mortal versus venial...frankly, I like that system!). We believe that all are welcome at the table as long as they believe in Christ..no special requirements of confession. There are actually some different chapters in the Catholic bible versus the Protestant, and differet wording too. We also believe in the Word of the Bible. We are taught scripture regularly. Perhaps, that has changed, but when I was in Catholic school, even the nuns joked about not knowing the bible. A biggie that I know of as far as some "hostility" is that idol worship is a huge no no in Protestant denominations. Catholics are viewed as worshiping idols with their various Saints, medals, Mary ect.

I would just ask.

[AnnW]

Originally posted by Mickey
. He washes their feet at the last supper to demonstrate loving service to others, but I think I've read that this is viewed differently by Protestants (?). .

Nope..we were taught the same thing.

[Mickey]

Originally posted by aztec_judy
Mickey, Actually don't know. I know she was raised catholic. But for some reason she wouldn't allow me to go to any catholic church. When younger (about 7 yrs old) went to grandpas funeral, the catholic church. But once they, grandparents were gone she actually never returned to church at all.
But I remember, at 18 I said something about I was going to lean on Jesus and wait his reply an she sorta went balistic on me. And told me that he was nothing a nobody beneath the saints. I should be praying to the Virgin Mary if I was to pray. Oh and there was another time that I was being asked to join a church, think I was about 14, and they made the mistake of calling her after I had said no. And she went balistic then too.
But with her, you never asked questions about anything...(

Judy, it almost sounds like she had some big let down in life that turned her away from Christ because that is really not the Catholic belief. And I got a flash when you mentioned praying to the Blessed Mother...my grandfather always prayed to her to ask her to intercede on his behalf with Jesus and he said, "Jesus would never say no to his Mom!" LOL! So we don't actually revere saints and the Blessed Mother in the way we revere Christ.

[Mickey]

Originally posted by KathyT
Mickey I think Roman Catholicism has often been viewed as "untouchable", in terms of religion hierarchy. It is a very formal relgion, steeped in ritual and tradition, yet extremely reserved. I think a lot of other relgions are more demonstrative in their faith. Perhaps the reaction you are getting isn't that Catholics aren't Christians, just that Catholics are different about how they go about it? I know a lot of my non Catholic friends are almost fascinated with RC.

Thanks, Kathy!

I have one non-Catholic friend who finds Roman Catholicism beautiful, in a mysterious sort of way, but most other faces when I state my religion are more of horror than awe! LOL! Almost like they just saw "666" on my forehead or something. ;)

It is a very ritualistic religion. And it is very different in a lot of ways, but just because they don't understand (or misunderstand) why we do what we do practice-wise, doesn't mean they should judge or view me as any less a Christian than they view themselves. But then, that, I think is a big difference...Catholics are not threatened by or look down upon other religions--we believe that there is value in all religions. I think the Christians I know (more fundamentalist maybe?) don't see any validity in anything other than their beliefs.

[Mickey]

Originally posted by AnnW
Well, cause Catholics are just going to burn in hell..that's why! LOL
Not sure why it is such a conversation ender, and maybe you can say nicely "I always get such a strange response when I mention I am Catholic, I am truly confused by it." and see what happens.

I was never taught to "hate Catholics. There are very many differences between Catholicism and main stream Protestant. We don't need an intermediary to talk to God, we believe we are saved by Grace and nothing that we can do (ie praying out of purgatory) can get us into Heaven. We believe a sin is a sin is a sin...no differences between them (ie mortal versus venial...frankly, I like that system!). We believe that all are welcome at the table as long as they believe in Christ..no special requirements of confession. There are actually some different chapters in the Catholic bible versus the Protestant, and differet wording too. We also believe in the Word of the Bible. We are taught scripture regularly. Perhaps, that has changed, but when I was in Catholic school, even the nuns joked about not knowing the bible. A biggie that I know of as far as some "hostility" is that idol worship is a huge no no in Protestant denominations. Catholics are viewed as worshiping idols with their various Saints, medals, Mary ect.

I would just ask.

LOL! I know you were teasing (or were you? ;)), but I think your first statement is actually true!

We don't need an intermediary to talk to God, that's just another way we pray (I actually very rarely pray that way myself). And I do remember hearing about the idol worship thing. And I cannot quote Bible verses like these people can. But I don't understand the reaction. I don't get like that with them over their ways, which I honestly don't understand, but would never judge.

Another difference is that Catholics tend to be more private or less intrusive in general conversation with regard to religious beliefs. We would NEVER go door to door or even try to convert people we know in passing. I just couldn't fathom going on to someone I didn't know well about lighting candles, doing a Novena, saying the Rosary and praying about personal things and inviting them to my Church. It would just feel like I was being rude or something.

I don't know...I think I will ask next time it happens, but in that Southern way you posted! LOL! I'll refrain from using my Yankee straight-forward approach! ;)

[AnnW]

Southern way is always best, darlin'! :newwink:

Protestant religions are very much driven by Matthew 28:16,
The Great Commission

16Then the eleven disciples went to Galilee, to the mountain where Jesus had told them to go. 17When they saw him, they worshiped him; but some doubted. 18Then Jesus came to them and said, "All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. 19Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in[1] the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, 20and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age."


This is why you see/hear many Protestants freely talking about their faith.


I'll email my brother and ask him why you are the devil! ;)

[Mickey]

Originally posted by AnnW
Southern way is always best, darlin'! :newwink:

Protestant religions are very much driven by Matthew 28:16,
The Great Commission

16Then the eleven disciples went to Galilee, to the mountain where Jesus had told them to go. 17When they saw him, they worshiped him; but some doubted. 18Then Jesus came to them and said, "All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. 19Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in[1] the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, 20and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age."


This is why you see/hear many Protestants freely talking about their faith.

Thanks! That's very interesting! We are told to "spread the word", but we don't take it to the degree of being intrusive with it. If someone shows an interest or asks me a question, I'm more than happy to elaborate and share my beliefs, but I won't be pushy about it.



Originally posted by AnnW
I'll email my brother and ask him why you are the devil! ;)

Please do and let me know what he says! LOL!

[AnnW]

I guess it depends on your definition of intrusive! LOL
"Go forth" is interpreted differently in all denominations and within the person themselves and a great source of debate.

I think it also allows us to be more "free" in our talking about or calling upon our religion. Kathy posted one time about group prayer and her feeling of it being a new concept to her.
http://boards.theideabox.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=9000

[imamama]

Living in the buckle of the Bible belt, I've always struggled with religious issues. Mainly that each religion feels that it's beliefs are THE ONLY RIGHT ONES. More than once I've experienced "Christians" (as they refer to themselves) judge others who do not believe exactly as they do. I've actually heard people tell others that they're going to hell for their beliefs. This is one of the main reasons I'm not very religious. From what I've seen and experienced, those who are "religious" are huge hypocrites. Granted, this is a generalization, and not all Christians or religious people are this way, this is just what I've seen the majority of in my life.
I can't really address your Catholosism question, Mickey, because it's never come up specifically as Catholic vs. any other religion. But from my example above, according to the types of "Christians" I've encountered, you're going to hell b/c you don't believe exactly as they believe!!!!!!
So, I guess I didn't really answer your question, huh?! I just like to hear myself type!!!!!

[Mickey]

Originally posted by imamama
Living in the buckle of the Bible belt, I've always struggled with religious issues. Mainly that each religion feels that it's beliefs are THE ONLY RIGHT ONES. More than once I've experienced "Christians" (as they refer to themselves) judge others who do not believe exactly as they do. I've actually heard people tell others that they're going to hell for their beliefs. This is one of the main reasons I'm not very religious. From what I've seen and experienced, those who are "religious" are huge hypocrites. Granted, this is a generalization, and not all Christians or religious people are this way, this is just what I've seen the majority of in my life.
I can't really address your Catholosism question, Mickey, because it's never come up specifically as Catholic vs. any other religion. But from my example above, according to the types of "Christians" I've encountered, you're going to hell b/c you don't believe exactly as they believe!!!!!!
So, I guess I didn't really answer your question, huh?! I just like to hear myself type!!!!!

I have found many people who preach to me to be hypocritical. My neighbor, for one. He is very evangelical and has invited me several times to go to their church...talks about Jesus and praying all the time. Then one day I got his mail by mistake (our addresses are very similar)--and guess what it was? PENTHOUSE magazine! I seriously thought about ringing his doorbell and presenting it to him with a raised eyebrow, (and perhaps saying something like, "Maybe this is a sign from Jesus that you shouldn't look at smut."), but the Christian in me decided to wait until midnight and sneak over and put it in their mailbox. ;)

[imamama]

ROFLMAO See! My point exactly! I think a dose of his own hypocracy (sp) would have done him good! Might have gotten him off of his soap box for a little while at least!!!! LOL
I just don't believe in acting or being a certain way outwardly, and being another way inwardly. I've never been one to try and please others for acceptance. I am who I am and you can take it or leave it (to loosely quote Popeye!! ROFL).
We grew up in a Presbyterian church that was very affluent, and we weren't. And what I saw and experienced was anything but true Christianity. My brother and I were the only kids who went to public school and thus, we made fun of constantly by the other kids. It wasn't until I was an adult that I realized it wasn't just kids being kids, they had learned that behavior from their parents. Obviously as kids, we didn't know how our parents were being treated by the other adults in the church, but in conversations with my mom as an adult, she and dad went through the same things. That church seemed nothing more than a Sunday Social Club. I know there were plently of people in the church that were there for all the right reasons, and were true Christians, but it's funny that they aren't the people we remember, because they were there to worship the Lord, and didn't feel a need to get into anyone's personal life. Make sense?

[Linda/NE]

Being Catholic myself, I get that alot too. I'm don't know exactly why people think we are not Christians. I think some people think we have a greater devotion to Mary than to Jesus (which is not the case at all.) Another difference I have found is in the beliefs of what it takes to get to heaven.

I was raised and believe that you not only have to believe in God and Jesus, but you have to be baptized, do good things in your life and repent for your sins. I have sat through services in other churches where they seem to be saying as long as you believe in Christ you will get to heaven, no baptism or good works are required. I have met people who tell me they are already saved or that they were saved on Sunday, May whatever, 19something when they took Jesus as their savior. I believe Jesus is my savior but I don't believe I'm 100% saved until the end. I don't believe anyone can be guaranteed salvation before that time. (these are just my beliefs by the way m:))

Anyway, that's what I have found to be some of the reasons people look upon Catholics differently than other religions. I think the biggest reason for religious arguments regardless what religion they are, is a misunderstanding of exactly what another person believes and a varying interpretation of the Bible. Catholics do not use the King James version which leads to different interpretations.

[imamama]

Very good points, Linda. I feel it all comes down to misunderstanding and unwillingness to listen to another's religious view points. We have plenty of Catholics around here, but they are by far the minority. I cannot stand to hear someone say they've been 'saved' therefore they're guaranteed to go to Heaven. To me, it's an excuse. Just about every person I've seen who claims to have been saved, commits sins every single day (maybe that's extreme!), but feel they have a free ticket to Heaven. To me, saying you're one thing, yet acting as another does not automatically grant you entrance to Heaven. Life is a constant test. Some tests we fail, some we pass. In the end, it's all going to work itsself out. Saying you're saved, or having someone tell you you've been saved does not absolve you from the many misdeeds and sins you will no doubt commit throughout the remainder of your life on earth.
The really bad thing around my area is that "disciples" from the different churches come door to door and try to preach to you. I'm always polite, but I tell them that I go to God if I need to be preached to, they have no right to come to my house and tell me how I'm living is right or wrong, nor do they have the right to try and impose their beliefs on me. More than once I've had people come to my door to "preach the Gospel" and I tell them I'm a single mother who had a child out of wedlock and don't go to church regularly, only to have them say to me "my child, you need to repent, ask God for forgiveness and change your ways". What the heck?!!! I believe God gave me dd to save my life. Otherwise, I'd most likely be dead by now, given the life I used to lead. I tell them that just b/c I had a child out of wedlock does not mean I'm going to hell, and furthermore, the fact that they are so quick to judge could quite possibly mean they'll be going to hell quicker than me. I usually never see them at my door again!!!! LOL

[AnnW]

Biblically, I have been taught, you don't need to do anything (good works, be nice ect) except accept Jesus as your Lord and Savoir to get into heaven. Now, you are supposed to want to do good things to please Jesus and to be like him. But nothing WE do guarrantees entrance..just his Grace. Also, once you are saved you are always saved. Thank goodness, NOT sinning isn't a requirement for entrance into heaven! Everyone is a sinner. I haven't met anyone in life, me included, who doesn't sin. To be honest, I do have a little problem with the kid in 3rd grade who was "saved" but then at 40 becomes a murderer, but I am just grateful that salvation isn't up to me! ;)
Linda, I have always been curious about the differences between the Catholic bible and Protestant. I know it's not just translation (heck, we have tons of those! LOL) but there are also extra books in the Catholic bible.

[Linda/NE]

Originally posted by AnnW
Biblically, I have been taught, you don't need to do anything (good works, be nice ect) except accept Jesus as your Lord and Savoir to get into heaven. Now, you are supposed to want to do good things to please Jesus and to be like him. But nothing WE do guarrantees entrance..just his Grace. Also, once you are saved you are always saved. Thank goodness, NOT sinning isn't a requirement for entrance into heaven! Everyone is a sinner. I haven't met anyone in life, me included, who doesn't sin. To be honest, I do have a little problem with the kid in 3rd grade who was "saved" but then at 40 becomes a murderer, but I am just grateful that salvation isn't up to me! ;)
Linda, I have always been curious about the differences between the Catholic bible and Protestant. I know it's not just translation (heck, we have tons of those! LOL) but there are also extra books in the Catholic bible.

Yes, everyone is a sinner. The key, I believe, is being sorry for your sins and repenting. I guess that's why Catholics hold reconciliation (aka confession) to a priest as more important than just telling God one on one you're sorry. Many Catholics resist this teaching as well.

I guess I have never understood how someone could be saved before the end, because people can lead horrible lives after they have taken Christ as their savior.

Yes, the Catholic bible does have additional books, but I can't right off name them. I was taught that when Luther left the church to start his own he took those books out.

I know, that's another criticism of Catholics that we don't focus on quoting scripture or know the Bible inside and out. Some of us read the Bible more than others. My religion classes always focused on the content from the Bible not the specifics (book, chapter, verse #s etc.). Some of dh's relatives have their kids rattle off memory verses, but they don't seem to know what they mean or what else was included in that part of Bible. To me they (dh's relatives) seem to just be picking and choosing what they want to believe.

It's a never ending battle over what is the 'right' way. I used to get really defensive when someone attacked the Catholic church, but lately it has just gotten to the point where I try really hard to accept others beliefs for what they are. If they aren't trying to convert me and pushing their religion on me, I'm not going to push mine on them. I believe God/Christ is the final judge and it's up to him to decide who did what they should have. I personally think it will reflect more favorably on me if I tried to live up to my beliefs rather than try to convert others who believe differently than me. :)

[Ryleigh S.]

I too am Catholic and have got many the strage looks when saying "yes, I am a Christian, I am Catholic"
When I first started working I was employed by a Pentecostal Child Care Centre and was routinely asked by parents enrolling their children, student teachers etc. If I was Christian, always getting the same response - "oh" then silence. Finally one say someone asked me and I just said : I am Catholic. I consider myself Christian, but according to some people I guess I am not.
They started to laugh. Ends up they were Catholic also and often got the same response from people.

[Mickey]

I'm learning that there are many misconceptions with regard to Catholic beliefs and that is most likely the problem. Maybe I should print off pamphlets to educate people and hand them out when I get the horrified looks. ;)

[littlesista06]

Sounds to me like the homeschooling group you're in are made up of predominantly fundamental Christians. Is that right?

I've shared this thread with my dh and he has a lot to say about it and if I can get him to sit down and dictate to me, LOL, you guys may be able to help each other out. :)

[Melody]

I have to ask. How does one know that they *have* been saved? Are they told by a minister? Is this something they just feel? I don't get that.
I wasn't brought up in any one church. The only time we went as kids was if that church had something free and fun for kids. That's when we were sent.
Dh is Catholic and both his parents are. A very big Catholic family. And I converted before getting married. My mother is Catholic too. Dad is Anglican but when my oldest brother was born they wouldn't marry my parents so my mom didn't have much to do with the church after that. I wish I hadn't in many ways. I just don't see things the way the church does. Well, the religous part I do. I believe in God, Jesus, Mary and the Angels and Saints. It's the rest of the church I could do without. I call them the 'rules'. I definately do not believe in confession. I very seldom go to church but the kids go to the Catholic school nearby. I did agree to raise them Catholic and I will but sometimes it's very hard to keep my mouth shut and not tell them what I really think. I just don't want to confuse them any more than what I was. I did believe I was doing the right thing when I converted because I didn't know as much as I do now to feel different back then. Times change, so do people.

[kat]

Originally posted by Mickey
I'm learning that there are many misconceptions with regard to Catholic beliefs and that is most likely the problem. Maybe I should print off pamphlets to educate people and hand them out when I get the horrified looks. ;)

LOL, maybe we should all make up little tracts to pass out.

I’ve enjoyed reading this thread. I’m not one to engage in religious debate because it always ends up feeling much to confrontational for me. Since this is not a debate, I would like to respond. At the core of everything I think are, as others have said, the misconceptions we have, coupled with our own religious interpretation of scripture. I’ll just share some of my thoughts in response to what some here have said.

My family and I are members of the Church of Christ (my husband was raised Catholic but became a member of the Church in his early 20’s). We have the notorious reputation of being the “frozen chosen” and telling everyone else that they are going to hell. Though I know there are some that hold to those ideas - really most do not. We do believe in speaking where the Bible speaks and being silence where the Bible is silent. Growth is a goal of Christians. “grow in the grace and knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.” 2 Peter 3:18. Maturity is mandatory. Prayer, study of scripture, giving of ourselves, and fellowship, accomplishes this. “God will show his mercy forever and ever to those who worship and serve him.” Luke 1:50. The final judgment of all religious groups is for the Lord. We believe that we are Christians only, not the only Christians.

We do believe that baptism of persons old enough to make that decision for themselves is essential for salvation. That is based on scriptural evidence. I live with the confidence that I am saved. “If we have been united with him like this in death [through baptism], we will certainly also be united with him in his resurrection. … Now if we died with Christ, we believe that we will also live with him.” Romans 6: 5, 8. I feel sad for those who do not have that same confidence and feel that they won’t know for sure about their salvation until the end. We believe that works are a result of our belief and desire to serve and not a way to earn our way to salvation. God does not save us because of what we’ve done. God has done for his children what we could not do for ourselves.

My sister, who does not attend services of the Church, uses the argument of the Church being full of hypocrites as an excuse for not attending. Will she find some hypocrites? Sure. There are some there for all the wrong reasons, but for the most part the Church is full of people who share their hurts, reveal their feelings, confess failures and sin, acknowledge weakness, admit fears and ask for help, prayer, and forgiveness. We should put our faith and trust in God and not in men. I always say that the Church is not a museum for the saints, but a hospital for sinners.
All sin and fall short of the glory of God.

“Their sins and evil things they do – I will not remember any more.” Hebrews 10:17. With the sacrifice of Jesus, God “made perfect forever those who are being made holy” Hebrews 10:14. We still err, stumble, and do exactly what we don’t want to do. That is the part of us according to scripture that is “being made holy”. Again, I know I’m saved. I won’t have to wait until the end to find out. When it comes to my position before God, he sees me as perfect because he sees me as one made perfect through the One who is perfect. He’s looking at me through the blood of Christ. As long as I “walk in the light, as he is in the light, we [I] have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus, his Son, purifies us [me] from all sin.” 1John 1:7 God continues to see me through that sacrificial blood. We do not believe “once saved, always saved”. Willful disobedience can cause a fall from God’s grace. “…some have rejected these and so have shipwrecked their faith…whom I have handed over to Satan…” 1 Timothy 1:19-20 “Let no one deceive you…God’s wrath comes on those who are disobedient.” Ephesians 5:6

“We proclaim him, admonishing and teaching everyone with all wisdom, so that we may present everyone perfect in Christ. To this end I labor, struggling with all his energy which so powerfully works in me.” Colossians 1:28-29 Paul’s aim was to present everyone perfect in Christ. He was fulfilling the great commission of Matthew 28. That is why so many are compelled to go door to door. I remember the words of a hymn: “You never mentioned him to me.” I don’t want to hear that accusation of me at the judgment.

Nor do I want to appear self-righteous and preachy, so I guess I will wrap this up. I just hope that this helps some who may have misconceptions about my religious background. I hope that you will want to look up any of the scriptures I used and read them in context to have an even greater understanding.

[AnnW]

Kat, that is so funny, we have always said that we (Methodist) are the frozen chosen cause Methodists are notorious for not heeding Matthew's call and going forth! ;)
My fil is like your sister..had a bad experience 50 years ago and never went again. I look at church the way you do. Like your example.

[littlesista06]

Originally posted by kat
...My sister, who does not attend services of the Church, uses the argument of the Church being full of hypocrites as an excuse for not attending. Will she find some hypocrites? Sure.

And what better place for them to be. :)

[kat]

Originally posted by AnnW
Kat, that is so funny, we have always said that we (Methodist) are the frozen chosen cause Methodists are notorious for not heeding Matthew's call and going forth! ;)

Can't be you guys. We are so known for having scripture interpreted correctly and practically sitting on our hands so as to show no "evidence of the spirit moving in us". LOL

Actually our congregation split over a scriptural matter last year. We ended up leaving a congregation that has been part of my family for about 40 years and began worshiping with a newly formed congregation. We now number just over 100. We are alot more demonstrative. I've even seen a hand or two lifted in praise.

[Mickey]

Originally posted by kat
...My sister, who does not attend services of the Church, uses the argument of the Church being full of hypocrites as an excuse for not attending...

I, too, struggled with this for a while...when I was in high school, I remember looking at an altar boy up on the altar and wondering if the priest knew he sold drugs at school. It can get disheartening at times, but you have to realize what it's really all about for YOU.


Originally posted by kat
...“Their sins and evil things they do – I will not remember any more.” Hebrews 10:17. With the sacrifice of Jesus, God “made perfect forever those who are being made holy” Hebrews 10:14. We still err, stumble, and do exactly what we don’t want to do. That is the part of us according to scripture that is “being made holy”. Again, I know I’m saved. I won’t have to wait until the end to find out. When it comes to my position before God, he sees me as perfect because he sees me as one made perfect through the One who is perfect. He’s looking at me through the blood of Christ. As long as I “walk in the light, as he is in the light, we [I] have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus, his Son, purifies us [me] from all sin.” 1John 1:7 God continues to see me through that sacrificial blood. We do not believe “once saved, always saved”. Willful disobedience can cause a fall from God’s grace. “…some have rejected these and so have shipwrecked their faith…whom I have handed over to Satan…” 1 Timothy 1:19-20 “Let no one deceive you…God’s wrath comes on those who are disobedient.”

See...that's really good to know that. I always thought that other Christians (non-denominational is what most are here) think that once saved, always saved and that being saved was their "get out of jail free" card with God...that they can sin all they'd like because they KNOW where they're going when they die.

Now I'd like to share a few things based upon some misconceptions I have recently learned about that some non-Catholics have about Catholicism:

The foundation of Catholicism is Christ—the Nicene Creed pretty much covers our beliefs. Jesus is our Lord and Savior and He died for us so that we may live eternally. He is what our religion is all about.

We don't worship Mary or the Pope.

We don't communicate with Saints and the Blessed Mother the same way we pray to Jesus—we ask them to intercede on our behalf...we don't pray TO them like we pray to God. It's actually like asking a friend to pray for you.

While many of us don't memorize and quote Bible verses like many other Christians, we DO use and know Biblical Scripture—the three weekly readings at Mass are from the Bible (and they reference the book and verse for each) and the priest discusses them in detail and he explains how they apply to our everyday lives.

And we DON'T think that deeds or Church membership or ritual is what saves. We believe that you must believe Jesus is your Lord and Savior and that salvation is only possible through Him—in addition to this, you are expected to love and forgive and respect others, the way Jesus would (live your life thinking, "WWJD?"). And yes, Jesus did dedicate his life to spreading the word, but he was also kind, loving, respectful, non-judgmental and forgiving.

So, we're actually very much like Protestant religions. That's why I couldn't understand why people think we're so different.

[AnnW]

Originally posted by kat
We are alot more demonstrative. I've even seen a hand or two lifted in praise.


HANDS IN THE AIR????????? oh my..you must be in a CULT!!!
:p ;)

[littlesista06]

Originally posted by Mickey
See...that's really good to know that. I always thought that other Christians (non-denominational is what most are here) think that once saved, always saved and that being saved was their "get out of jail free" card with God...that they can sin all they'd like because they KNOW where they're going when they die.

Now I'd like to share a few things based upon some misconceptions I have recently learned about that some non-Catholics have about Catholicism:

The foundation of Catholicism is Christ—the Nicene Creed pretty much covers our beliefs. Jesus is our Lord and Savior and He died for us so that we may live eternally. He is what our religion is all about.

We don't worship Mary or the Pope.

We don't communicate with Saints and the Blessed Mother the same way we pray to Jesus—we ask them to intercede on our behalf...we don't pray TO them like we pray to God. It's actually like asking a friend to pray for you.

While many of us don't memorize and quote Bible verses like many other Christians, we DO use and know Biblical Scripture—the three weekly readings at Mass are from the Bible (and they reference the book and verse for each) and the priest discusses them in detail and he explains how they apply to our everyday lives.

And we DON'T think that deeds or Church membership or ritual is what saves. We believe that you must believe Jesus is your Lord and Savior and that salvation is only possible through Him—in addition to this, you are expected to love and forgive and respect others, the way Jesus would (live your life thinking, "WWJD?"). And yes, Jesus did dedicate his life to spreading the word, but he was also kind, loving, respectful, non-judgmental and forgiving.

So, we're actually very much like Protestant religions. That's why I couldn't understand why people think we're so different.

Well, once saved is always saved. (we don't rely on it as a 'pass') If you profess to belive in Jesus Christ as your Lord and Savior, you are therefore saved. Yes we sin, but Christ died, descended to hell where he absorbed our sins so that when we come before God, we are seen as Holy. We need to want to be good in our lives, but we do sin and need to ask forgiveness; which we are granted. We don't see it as "oh I'll just buy this hooker tonight and pray for God to forgive me in the morning" kind of thing.

Protestants do not need any interceedence to pray to God, we pray directly to him.

There are so many fundamental differences in the two religions, that I can't see them as similar. The additional sacraments that must be done to receive salvation, the altering of the 10 commandments, etc.

From what I've read here, I'm picking up that the homeschooling group you are with are more the Evangelical Christians that do tend to feel their way is the only way. In fact, if one came to my doorstep and told me Presbyterianism is wrong, come to "our side" LOL, I'd kick them off my porch.

I hope this made sense, my eyes are crossing and I don't feel like I've organized my thoughts as well as I'd like - way past my bedtime.

I poked around this site which compares the two on fundamental issues http://home.elp.rr.com/endtimeprophecy/catholic.htm

All each of us can do is KNOW our religion. With religion, I belive, a little knowlege is a dangerous thing. lol We need to know what we belive, practice what we belive and be smart enough to know the differences in other religions.

[Linda/NE]

Originally posted by littlesista06
Well, once saved is always saved. (we don't rely on it as a 'pass') If you profess to belive in Jesus Christ as your Lord and Savior, you are therefore saved. Yes we sin, but Christ died, descended to hell where he absorbed our sins so that when we come before God, we are seen as Holy. We need to want to be good in our lives, but we do sin and need to ask forgiveness; which we are granted. We don't see it as "oh I'll just buy this hooker tonight and pray for God to forgive me in the morning" kind of thing.

Maybe the disagreement over this is the what the meaning/understanding of saved is. I think of 'saved' as taken to a place/state of being where no more harm can come to me and I have reached a state of true happiness that can never to be taken away. If I was saved now (as in my interpretation of the term) I wouldn't be experiencing the hurt and disappointments of this world. I know as a human on this earth it is impossible to reach that state, but I can reach it at the end if Christ decides that I am worthy. I feel that believing in him isn't enough. I have to work to earn that worthiness. Much of society operates on this idea doesn't it? If you're good you will get rewarded.


Originally posted by littlesista06

Protestants do not need any interceedence to pray to God, we pray directly to him. .

We don't NEED any interceedence to pray but many do believe it is helpful.

It was always explained with this comparison: It's like a little boy that wants a new bike. He knows his father will make the ultimate decision so enlists the help of his mother. The boy knows that his father respects and holds in high regard what his mother says. The boy asks his mother if she will ask his father if he can have a new bike.
This also is very common in society--people will seek out prominent influencial members of a community (whether it be a town, city, church community, etc.) to back a cause they feel is important.
The 'prayers' often said to Mary and the saints include stating that saint's accomplishments, good deeds, etc. This is not praise and worship. It is very similar to accessing another's strengths to encourage them to help work toward the desired cause such as " you are so good at organizing the annual activity fund drive, we'd be honored if you'd head the new playground fund drive."



Originally posted by littlesista06


There are so many fundamental differences in the two religions, that I can't see them as similar. The additional sacraments that must be done to receive salvation, the altering of the 10 commandments, etc.

I guess I'm not familar with all the sacraments you have- Baptism, confirmation, Eucharist, Holy Orders, Matrimony, Reconciliation, Anointing of the sick (some of the names have changed slightly over the years I think) but they are all things Jesus did and commanded us to do so I don't see why they would be 'extras.' Since RC don't allow priests to marry, it would be difficult for one individual to obtain all the sacraments anyway.

The Catholic Mass is a structured ritualized service. We gather, we read from the Bible, we are taught by the priest about the scriptures, we remember the last supper and Christ's Death, and we receive Christ in the Eucharist. Everything we do has a direct relation to the Bible and Christ's teaching. Reconciliation comes from the scripture where the disciples are told "whose sins you forgive , they are forgiven , whose sins you hold bound, they are held bound" We believe that confessing to a priest is what Jesus meant by these words. He gave them the power to grant forgiveness. Forgiveness of sins is dependent on remorse and repentance. One is not forgiven if they are not truly sorry for it.

Confession is not always easy to do but there is something about having to humble yourself and admit out loud what you have done wrong that can be an extremely moving experience.


Originally posted by littlesista06


I poked around this site which compares the two on fundamental issues http://home.elp.rr.com/endtimeprophecy/catholic.htm

All each of us can do is KNOW our religion. With religion, I belive, a little knowlege is a dangerous thing. lol We need to know what we belive, practice what we belive and be smart enough to know the differences in other religions.


I skimmed the site and was immediately turned off because the title states something about the Catholic Church being wrong. That tells me it is not an objective site it is written from the opposing view point.
My future BIL went away from the church for a long time and did intensive study on the church. He came back because his research lead him back to believing in the Church's teachings. Someone my sisters know had went to study to be a minister with another denomination and through his study he was led to leave that denomination and join the Catholic church because his study convinced him that the Catholic church was the right way.

There are probably millions of sites on the Internet concerning religion and anyone could probably find a sight to defend their beliefs. I totally agree that all one can do is know what your religion teaches and believe and practice those teachings.

Who knows--maybe no one has completely developed the Church that Jesus had in mind and all the churches have captured a sense of what he wanted and he will be satisfied with that
?( ?(

[imamama]

Originally posted by Linda/NE

Confession is not always easy to do but there is something about having to humble yourself and admit out loud what you have done wrong that can be an extremely moving experience.(

Before I read your post, I was going to post a comment about confession. I feel this is a very good way to hold yourself accountable for your sins and misdeeds. I think if more people would do this in some way, it might help one realize how not to repeat that same sin or misdeed.

[littlesista06]

Linda - I went back to the site I linked to, and I agree that it's non-objective. I only saw the comparisons done simply - which I needed LOL.

I would not intentionally tell anyone their religion is wrong, bad, etc. I hope you know I didn't mean to be disrespectful.

[imamama]

Originally posted by littlesista06
I would not intentionally tell anyone their religion is wrong, bad, etc. I hope you know I didn't mean to be disrespectful.

Yeah, yeah, whatever, you're just a disrepectful B***H :lol: ;) j/k of course!!!! Had to give you a hard time since it's been a while since I've been on the board!!!! :D

[aztec_judy]

Just my own way of doing it... lol
I have tried to make sure that I follow the verses of the bible that says something like :
Judge not, for that that ye judge of ye shall also be judged.
For all have sinned and come short of the glory of God.
Your forgiven, but go an sin no more.
You will know them by their fruits.

I prefer not to be the judge because I know I would be a hard one to judge someone else.
I know I have sinned and fallen very short of HIS love, but thru Jesus am saved, but I must also CHOOSE NOT to do the same sin again, or it will NOT be forgiven.
Your works, good deeds, YOUR LIFE THAT YOU LIVE, shows others whether your a hypocrite or a true Christian.

I had a hard time with most churches (and I have been in many) because it appeared that they went to SEE what you are wearing, (sorta keeping up with the jones... hmmm)

But what, and how your life is going what a person SEES in you is going to show them if you really believe in what you claim to beleive in. This is the "fruit" showing itself to others.

I know I am saved, because God has told me so, but I know too that I can fall from Grace. But if I will see the sin an ask forgiveness and ask for the Power of Christ to NOT do it again then he will help me NOT to do it again.
Its hard to say that I am Protestant, Presbyterian, Methodist, or what ever... I believe I am Gods Child Saved thru Jesus, and I must strive to always LOOK to Jesus to guide and direct me in the way I should go.
If I am not sure of something I pray about it, and I know I will receive an answer, could be within the hour or it might not be for a long time. But once the answer has been showed then I must act upon it.
Knowing the Bible is Knowing what God wants of me, But MY interpetation of it is different than someone elses, but if I am wrong in the way I see it then God will show me that I am wrong and He will show me thru someone how or why.
God uses people, circumstances and different things in each person to show each what God wants them to see.
As for the praying, as I came to ya'll and asked for prayers for my grandson, I understand about asking someone to intercede on my behalf or with me.
As the Bible says where 2 or more are gathered in MY NAME there I shall be also and will hear them.
Also I try not to be judgemental on things because God uses People in different ways in a my life to help me to do better, to get from point a to point b and then on to point c without "backsliding" or falling from Grace.

I don't know if this makes sense to ya'll but its how I live my life. Since my return to Gods ways. Which I had left for a few years because of something that had happened.
And even when I left God has always kept "CHRISTIANS" AROUND ME... He has let me know I AM HIS, and HE will NOT let go of me. For which I am grateful for. Even where I am renting at right now, I have a Preybeterian (sp??), Penetcostal, and 7th day all rite here .
And I have ya'll forum to come to (which I know there are many CHRISTIANS HERE) and then I also have a web site that there are Christian ladies there tooo... So I know that God is with me, and I PRAISE GOD FOR PUTTING BILL IN MY LIFE ... for at the time that HE (GOD) put bill in my life I was at the point of attempting sucide, which to ME ... is unforgiving sin (but this is my opinion for me not for anyone else, just me)
THESE ARE MY OWN THOUGHTS AND OPINIONS FOR ME ... MY LIFE ONLY!!!

Sorry so long and preachy ??... lolol

[Linda/NE]

Originally posted by littlesista06
Linda - I went back to the site I linked to, and I agree that it's non-objective. I only saw the comparisons done simply - which I needed LOL.

I would not intentionally tell anyone their religion is wrong, bad, etc. I hope you know I didn't mean to be disrespectful.

Heaven's no!! No offense taken!! :) :)